Cook: ‘China Hasn’t Pressured Us’
daringfireball.net
daringfireball.net
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21210678
So Cook means that Apple did self-censorship in favor of China at their willing? That sounds even worse.
It's said Pablo Escobar didn't need to arrange those escapes from prison: he didn't have to ask. It was done for him because he would be grateful to his benefactors.
Accomadating, implicitly or explicitly, the Chinese government is not respecting or listening to a market because the Chinese government is not a market. This is a different kind of relationship to "people who buy iPhones" or "Canadians".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_mar...
They already'captured' so much of the us market that catering to it has sever denimishing returns. Most people already in the ecosystem will keep buying it no matter what Apple does.
I'm China, they stand to gain a lot of new customers by catering to their wishes (or more specifically the wishes of their government)
Good luck sourcing chips for future military systems.
There's still comparatively little high-tech silicon fabrication in mainland China.
Apple and the Americans that work for it would be so much richer if the majority of its revenue (international vs US) just disappeared.
We don't have to treat them as a force of nature.
any petty despot enjoys the same level of power
The companies in question had a massive technological and force advantage over the local populace with free reign when it came to managing dissent with force. Their only political concerns were back in Europe.
Some argue that some live in borderline corporatocracies now, but the 17th century was a completely different ball game.
In the past, you would get parts of a movie, titles, jokes or whatever censored in some part of the world, and not elsewhere.
Now to avoid upsetting the CCP companies decide to not use potentially offensive content all over the world.
It's terrifying.
This. Effing Apple.
Love their products but next time I'll at least try to reconsider.
Twitter and Facebook serve protesters very well
And right now, the right (accidentally?) won, so the left are naturally reacting to anything that might have lead to that victory: namely, social media.
Yes, it would be allowed in the US.
If it was removed for anything other normal violations of an Apps Stores TOS it would be violating several portions of the the First Amendment including freedom of speech, for the right to assemble, and the right to petition the government.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights#F...
Yes, it's called Twitter. It's happened many times before, complete with fire and mayhem.
In the United States, protests are rarely just "the people" because the politicians are also "the people."
A subset of politicians who oversee the police are very often in the front of any protest march. In addition to community leaders, clergy, and other people the police don't want to screw with.
I know there are a few Hong Kong politicians involved in those protests, but not at the level that is typical in the United States.
In spite of the sensationalized and rare incidents that are publicized on the internet, in America politicians = people > police.
i am pretty sure the bill of rights is about what the government can’t do, and doesn’t affect private parties like apple...
and I am still upset about it.
My line of thought has not changed in 10 years : having one company gatekeeping what apps can be installed on a smart device you own is an aberration that will only lead to more situations like these.
[1] https://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s23e02-band-in-china [2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorauseilender_Gehorsam
"You're holding it wrong", "Our butterfly keyboards are perfectly fine", "The iOS update does not slow down our older models"...
Other companies screw up, cheat and sometimes even lie, but Apple and a section of its fanboys repeatedly gaslight - even on small faults.
Well, Apple does have a knack of taking established conventions and technologies and then rebranding them with their Apple logo and marketing fairy dust.
As your point states, it's quite effective xD
What irritates me most from Tim Cook's Apple, is that he and Apple now pretends to be good and caring, and yet their actions shows the opposite.
Whenever Tim Cook come on to the stage and said things like our customer loves the Mac, ( Not anymore) And they cares about their customers. ( Nothing in the past few years shows they do until Customers are fed up and leaving ) Many have been crying for years before they listen and get a new design with new keyboard.
Steve doesn't admit it when there is a problem. But he often offers solutions and feedback very quickly, often within a shortened one cycle of product refresh. Magic Mouse, MacBook Air's USB port... etc
And for most part, Steve doesn't tell lies, ( or lies that is external of Apple, anything internal he could be completely making things up to his wishes ). He does put a spin and deceptions into words.
But this is not the first time we caught Tim Cook lying. From the Qualcomm case to the HK Protestor Apps ( Which isn't even used for illegal gathering, but getting away from unlimited use of Made in China's Toxic Tear gas ), to China's censorship.
I agree with Gruber, this is just cowardice.
"You're holding it wrong"
> Magic Mouse
Well, the infamous Hockey Puck Mouse stuck around for two years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_USB_Mouse
> And for most part, Steve doesn't tell lies
It appears history has been kind to him…
Yes, like I said he didn't admit the problem publicly, but actually offer a free case to those affected. Not to mention the Antenna gate lost of a few db signal was a problem that mostly affect US Carriers where Tower to Clients ratio are one of the lowest in developed countries.
> Magic Mouse
I cant find the pieces, where he actually admit the Hockey Puck Mouse problem and the general dislike from its customers. Not only do you have the option to use another mouse, which makes the matter not as urgent, he admitted he was working on a new design 6 - 8 months after the hockey puck shipped. And the Next Apple Pro Mouse was great.
The solution to all problem is to admit there is a problem, The new Apple fail at that spectacularly.
Please do not presume to speak on everyone's behalf. I love the Mac, as do millions of other people; MacBooks have been outselling their competitors, even the first Touch Bar model:
https://fortune.com/2016/11/09/apple-macbook-pro-sales/
Disbelieve it, downvote it, but the naysayers are a vocal minority, and Apple can see that in their numbers.
Back to the topic though, all this kowtowing of Western companies to China is definitely depressing.
Apple has on numerous occasions said more than 50% of their Mac sales were to new customers, ( and specially to China ), and yet their active Mac user base did not grown anywhere according to that number. The only conclusion would be there are also a percentage of people leaving the ecosystem.
And the percentage cross a threshold before that admit to their mistake. Yes, those sales number are often a delayed indication of what the market expect.
Not to mention that sales number completely ignores developing an App for the close to 1B Active iPhone users requires a Mac. ( And in the increase in purchase of Mac from Fortunes 500 companies such as Sales Forces and IBM )
Source for that?
My first Silicon Valley job was at Apple, and my second was at NeXT. I was back at Apple for the introduction of the iMac, and I was at the Apple all-hands meeting where Steve announced the new product to the employees. (I use the word "new" in the loosest sense. The iMac was old technology in a colorful new package.)
I attended with a friend who was, like me, an Apple programmer at the time. I had met Steve a few times and seen his presentations before. I knew what to expect. My friend did not.
My basic impression, as I remember it, was, "thank God Steve is into tech marketing, not politics." He could really work a crowd. I never understood how the world's great demagogues had managed their terrible achievements until I saw what Steve could do with a crowd.
As we were walking out of the auditorium, my friend said to me, shaking his head, "I don't understand it--I believed him! I work on some of that stuff. I knew he was lying, and yet I still believed him!"
I felt like that said it all. I guess I still feel that way.
His argument that Taiwanese flag has been OK to the Chinese regime because it's similar to the Hongkongnese flag is just plainly nonsense, if one has the least bit of awareness of Chinese news. Sure, HK and Macau have their own flags, but it is based on the understanding that ultimately they're "part of China". The Taiwanese use of their flag intends to signify that they are a completely independent political entity. You cannot simply claim they're the same thing.
In fact, there have been countless incidents of international brands subject to the wrath of Chinese consumers (not really the regime) just because their wording/map etc. might be interpreted as supporting Taiwan independence. I'm not saying it is good for the populace to be this sensitive and nationalistic, but it is just the fact at this moment. I'm sure that when Apple decided to remove the flag, it's more of a "careful not to have any reason to be subject to a potential boycott" decision, i.e. a commercial one, which is natural to all profit-driven companies.
One-party states are very effective at implementing top-down rule, and pretty much none of them recognize a right to petition government for a redress of grievances. There's a completely different business environment when the government rule is no longer subject to debate. Corporations in the west have huge power to make political and social change, but this concept doesn't translate.
Apple is a capable enough company that they already understand the legal, social, and political environment they are subject to when doing business in China. Beijing doesn't have to 'pressure' Apple to make changes. Apple already knows what they can and can't do.
Global trade is an essential influence for the protection of human rights, but it's the definitely the long game. I think we'd be worse off as a world if we swing back towards isolationism again. An emoji is not the hill to die on here.
China manufactures the physical chips and has a bad reputation for forcing companies to add backdoors.
The government intelligence apparatus (apparently apparatii is incorrect both in English and in Latin?) have more in common with each other than they do with "us".
Anyway, I didn't downvote...
>Cook said they have never been asked in China by authorities to unlock an iPhone, but added, referring to the U.S., "I have here."
>"And we stood up against that, and said we can't do it," he added. "Our privacy commitment is a worldwide one."
I should also add that it's a good sign for Apple that China's embassy tweeted this out [2]. I've always wondered if or when China would force them to backdoor the iPhone or iMessage to operate there. But it seems like they've come to some sort of equilibrium where they realize that's an Apple core interest and can't push on it. If they're tweeting it out it means there's some limited propaganda value to them (in the same way that Putin gets some propaganda value by providing Snowden asylum) and it makes it unlikely that they would force Apple on this.
Likewise it's also good that Josh Hawley and others are making noise about this [3]. On the surface he's targeting Apple for criticism, but his proposed bill doesn't really affect Apple since only Chinese iCloud data is stored in China, which would comply with his bill [4]. US politicians have mostly ignored this issue until now, it will help Apple by showing the CCP that the US has an interest in this. Perhaps in a trade deal they'll be able to undo the Chinese data localization requirement as well [5].
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20904857
[2] https://twitter.com/ChineseEmbinUS/status/119754656621681459...
[3] https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1196412815608864771
[4] https://www.hawley.senate.gov/sites/default/files/2019-11/Na...
[5] https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-floats-cloud-concession-t...
I know that they were using exploits via Safari which seemed very sophisticated to monitor Uyghurs en masse.
Through literally every other part of the stack from the wireless carriers to applications like WeChat. They don't need an iOS backdoor when they have CCP officials at Tencent's offices. Most people use Android and the police just make them install an app on their smartphones, something they can't do on iOS [1]. The way to access an iOS device is with 0days. I used to see plenty of credits on iOS security updates for Chinese researchers, but China seems to have put a stop to that with the goal of hoarding them [2].
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/technology/china-xinjiang...
[2] https://www.cyberscoop.com/pwn2own-chinese-researchers-360-t...
[0] https://www.hongkongfp.com/2017/07/22/web-cleansing-chinas-x...
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-forces-tourists-instal...
[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/24/apple-moves-to-store-icloud-...
[2] https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/07/18/chinese-icloud-da...
>Originally, iCloud data was stored on Apple-controlled servers, with the Cupertino company holding the encryption keys. Apple announced a year ago that this would change to comply with new laws in China, and that data for Chinese iCloud accounts would be moved to a server run by Guizhou-Cloud Big Data (GCBD), a company owned by the provincial government.
>However, I have spoken to Apple today, who confirmed that it still holds the encryption keys, and states categorically that they have not been made available to either GCBD or China Telecom.
https://9to5mac.com/2018/07/18/chinese-icloud-data-china-tel...
Russia recently passed a law that all gadgets sold in Russia would need Russian developed software. I really wonder how that will affect Apple.
This is a Google translation:
>According to a profile official, in summer in informal conversations it was said that the main goal of the bill is Apple, which they are trying to oblige the law to install Russian applications on iPhones and iPads. But the iOS operating system that Apple uses does not at all imply the ability to preinstall third-party applications.
>At one of the meetings, Apple representatives warned that the introduction of such standards would force the company to "revise its business model in Russia, " Vedomosti wrote in the summer. As of September, the company's position has not changed, the official said. “The company then took this position: we will show you the middle finger, your market is a very small segment of our business, its loss is insignificant,” he says. Perhaps the authors of the project were inspired by the example of China, from where, after the adoption of similar rules, no one left, admits The Bell's interlocutor. But Russia is not China, there are no levers of pressure on Apple, he states.
[1] https://thebell.io/zakon-protiv-apple-novye-ogranicheniya-mo...
Forcing out all outside software allows them to ensure that every single device comes from the factory with backdoors preinstalled.
GDP less than Italy / Canada, consumers poorer than Chinese.
It certainly won't happen overnight, but I see a checkmate forming, with no realistic way out.
English borrowed kowtow to use in such context, though it's a little broader, but it's mostly fallen out of favour.
Hanja characters which are shared both in the Korean language and also Japanese language are actually quite meaningful. So much so, that persons literate in Japanese and Korean can get the gist of phrases and sentences written in both Mandarin and Cantonese.
Hanja characters are basically pictograms, not phonemic representations, and are quite different from the glyphs that make up the Latin alphabet.
This is language-dependent. In Japanese, for example, kanji can be used either for their semantic value ("kun" reading) or for their phonemic value ("on" reading).
For example, the Japanese word "futon" is written as 布団. The first character, "布", has a semantic meaning of "fabric", "spread out", or "disseminate", all of which are unrelated to the native Japanese word "futon". (That is, the word "futon" does not have a Japanese root meaning "fabric".) However, 布 is pronounced in various Chinese dialects as "bù", "buó", or "pu" -- which the Japanese language assimilated as the on reading "fu".
> Is Japanese language always/often a mix of kanji and hanja? Are there significant kinds of text that are kanji-only?
my partner, a native Japanese speaker, explained
> Usually mix of kanji, hiragana, and katakana.
> But some words are written only in kanji like “入室禁止” meaning do not enter (this room)
> For the sentences, almost all sentences require hiragana for verbs.
My buddy, a native English speaker fluent in Japanese, responded
> It’s usually a mix.
From which I gather: kanji-only signage and phrasing (which can be "read" by Mandarin or Cantonese literates) is common, but longer constructions involving sentences typically will have hiragana and/or katakana which are phonetic and have little to no meaning for people not literate in Japanese.
> 忖度 > Degree > Estimate the feelings of others, and give consideration to others > Missing in English
> There was no English word corresponding directly to “Degree”, and there was a scene explaining the meaning in English to a foreign reporter at the press conference of Yasuhiro Tsunoike. [15] [16] He states that the nuances of "surmise" and "read between the lines" are different, and that the same nuances in Japanese can only be expressed accurately. ALC, which also operates an English translation site, is not a direct translation, thinks about (people) feelings, senses (people) feelings, considers (people) feelings, thinks of (people), the body of the other He proposes an alternative English translation of the words “thinking, thinking, guessing, guessing, reading the air” [17] .
> "Jesusman" is sometimes used as one of the corresponding words for "degree".
EDIT EDIT Is it a coincidence that イエスマン is Japanese for Jesus-Man and is pronounced 'Yes-Man' ?
Duplicitous cowards.
Even if he's telling the truth, he has lost my trust. I have no proof of him speaking his mind, ever.
Like this, were he is used by Trump in the most publicly way possible:
I'm pretty sure he rolls over, before they even ask.
Blocking, unblocking and blocking the protestor app is Apple anticipating what they will gain with the most. And they came to the conclusion that China market access > human rights in Taiwan + bad publicity.
And yeah, the internal note of Tom Cook was full of bullshit, concerning the app. No company is going to explain financial motives to their employees.
uh what?
I suspect most people understood