Drug Dealers Are Offering Black Friday Deals on the Dark Web | Hacker News Reader

Drug Dealers Are Offering Black Friday Deals on the Dark Web

independent.co.uk

79 pointsfludlight75 comments

Has anyone commenting ever actually bought or sold drugs before? Every single dealer or customer I've ever met has been through someone else, or someone I knew. There's relationships and trust vouching, just like any business. Credit is extended, and paid back. Transactions generally occur in homes or cars.

The comments here are acting like all real world drug market transactions occur between strangers, which is so far removed from the truth we might as well be talking about something else.

A good way to describe selling weed is 'the only MLM where people actually want what you're selling'

A former friend of mine who is now in prison for possession of heroin used to buy heroin from The Silk Road as if it was Amazon, just pick any listing and hope for the best.

He wasn't busted via Silk Road btw, he was just busted when he was pulled over in his car with it. No need for sophisticated hacking when you can just nab them for any hallucinated traffic violation

> No need for sophisticated hacking when you can just nab them for any hallucinated traffic violation

Perhaps both were involved. Never put down to chance what can be explained by parallel construction..

Where I live (big city) there are numbers you can text and it's a different guy every time. It's like ordering pizza except you get in their car for the transaction. You are usually waiting 20min at most. The whole operation is eerily professional. Back in my home town it was a guy you knew who may or may not be around or that other guy your friend knew who's house you could swing by. For weed in particular you tend to get more of the small town style dealers even in big cities just cos it's nice and people are used to it but for hard drugs people don't care, they want their drugs in the most convenient way possible.

The first time I heard of this kind of system it was for black tar heroin distribution in the US from a specific Mexican town that basically franchised the drug trade. [1]

Super interesting stuff. Google Xalisco or pick up the book Dreamland for more.

[1] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2010-feb-16-la-me-bl...

I haven’t personally but certainly know people who have.

The experience sounds quite pleasant if that’s what you’re interested in purchasing.

Fire up tor, mix some bitcoins around, look at a bunch of listings, send some bitcoins and an address, wait a few days, and get a package by post with some high quality drugs in it.

For the record, the people I know who’ve done this tend to be particularly technically inclined.

Personal and friend experience tells me its cheaper and better quality on the darknet than in the street. Whicj is not surprising tbh

I guess it is a good time to ship a bunch of packages thru post offices that are already going to be at max capacity. Seems like it would lower the chance of them getting picked up.

Counterpoint: There is also a higher chance of Post Offices losing your package, routing it to an incorrect address, or other holiday errors that would increase your risk.

And just from the minimal Dark Web browsing I've done, it seems like post offices are really only searching packages when they already have some reason to be suspicious, like contact from law enforcement. Truly random checks seem like an extremely rare occurrence.

A friend of mine in Portland, Oregon once told me that a package turned up at his house. He noticed that the package wasn't addressed to him, but instead the return address on the package was his address. After taking the package inside, someone opened it and found that it was full of vacuum-sealed marijuana.

A couple days later when he returned from work a post it note was left on his front door that said something along the lines of 'I think the post office got my address wrong and you may have received it, please call me.' He took the package and the note to the police.

When they tried calling the number they got a message saying that number was out of service.

That's really not cool. For a few ounces of grass, come onnn

He didn't go to the cops over a few ounces of grass. He went to the cops over an anonymous stranger framing him for multiple federal felonies! I strongly believe that nobody should be imprisoned for cannabis, but I still might very well go to the authorities if a stranger practically tried to get me imprisoned for theirs.

They probably just picked a random return address, it's not as if they are going to put their own address on the packet.

Well sure, but it's not as if framing a random stranger for multiple federal felonies is any better than framing a non-random stranger for them.

Yes, but "framing a stranger" implies some intent.

Can a post office generally open random packages under the guise of intercepting drugs?

I would very much hope not.

Yes

It depends. First class mail needs probable cause and a warrant since it may be private correspondence [0]

[0] https://www.uspis.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/USPIS-FAQs....

In general, first class letters that don't cross a national border and don't look like they contain something other than letter are safe from warrentless interception. Certainly packages have no such protections.

FISA (post 9/11 "national security" authorizing legislation) adds some exceptions

> Third, provisions in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (“FISA”), as amended, 50 U.S.C. § 1801 et seq., specifically authorize the Attorney General to conduct physical searches of mall without prior judicial authorization in certain circumstances. Section 304(e) of FISA, 50 U.S.C. § 1824(e), provides that the Attorney General, under certain circumstances, may approve the execution of an emergency physical search of property, including property that “is in transit to or from an agent of a foreign power or a foreign power,” id. § 1824(a)(3)(B), so long as the Attorney General subsequently obtains an order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizing the search...

https://www.rstreet.org/2014/11/19/yes-the-government-can-op...

A lot of packages I receive from overseas are stamped with words to the effect of "Package may be opened and inspected" which is probably directly related to this clause, and also negating the need to get permission from the foreign courts. I'm guessing that is to speed things up in case they do want to inspect it.

Likewise, I've received one package that was opened and inspected. It came in a clear plastic bag along with a very short note stating that it had been inspected in accordance to <whatever laws they were>.

Senders probably don't usually stamp that on illegal shipments, and the post surely doesn't drop in a polite notification if they discover something illegal in there.

The Constitution in general protects much less when the borders are involved. I meant to say that the US government can open any mail it feels like if that mail isn't a first class letter, without needing permission from a judge. Additionally, even first class letters aren't protected if they cross the border; the government can inspect anything it feels like that crosses a border without needing permission from any judge.

Unless someone forged the notice (unlikely, as you point out) some government opened it (it could also have been the government of the sender or any transit country). All those notices are the government voluntarily letting you know because someone in the government thought it would be better; if the FBI wanted to open a package because they vaguely suspected terrorism they could do it without needing to stamp the package or give any notice if they wanted.

Randomly? No. If there is suspicion (read: probable cause)? Absolutely.

https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/packages-suspected-containi...

>it seems like post offices are really only searching packages when they already have some reason to be suspicious

This is not the case. It's a very heavy ymmv sort of situation. Eg, a post office I lived close to would scan 1 in 10 packages of mail through an xray, including random letters. They had a system that would randomly select from the line.

However, when it comes to USPS a warrent needs to be had to open the letter. Because of this if mail is caught with drugs in it, or suspected, from an x-ray, the mail suddenly gets "lost", because it's cheaper and easier than filing warrants all day. Especially given that the DEA cares about the seller far more than the buyer. If the package is large, but not like massively large, they might go out of their way to file a warrant and give a "love letter", where instead of the mail being delivered, instead a letter is delivered that says, "We know what you're up to. Knock it off." (paragraphrasing ofc)

Because they want the seller, and because anyone can frame anyone else by mailing them drugs anonymously, I've not heard of a case where someone who has receiving drugs by mail who has gotten arrested, with two exceptions: 1) Massively large packages, like multiple huge boxes or barrels worth. 2) I have seen a falling out where someones friend reported them for buying drugs online, and an arrest was carried out then, but due to the potential for abuse, the DEA leaves the buyers alone.

Is this actually newsworthy?

If you’re going to buy drugs the darkweb is almost surely safer (as in more likely to be getting what you ask for) than buying it from some random person in your neighborhood.

How exactly? This makes no sense to me.

Having a package arrive discretely is arguably safer than the in person interaction with a dealer. Also, you don't get repeat customers if you kill them, so online procured products are usually of a quality high enough you will be a repeat customer (and not die).

I think you vastly overestimate the business acumen of drug dealers on the darkweb. You are much more likely to never receive a shipment than to bump into someone worried about repeat customers

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/11466413/Wha... (What 'dark net' drug buyers say about their dealers, March 2015)

> Third, people who use Silk Road 2.0 are very happy punters. The average score out of 5 left by drug user on the site of was an impressive 4.85.

> This is the most important thing of all. Because it offers competition and choice, the power here is in the hands of the buyer rather than the vendor. Drug dealers on these markets are very polite and attentive – desperate for a positive review because anything else would damage business. I emailed a number of vendors during my research and all were extremely helpful. As you can see from this Wordle, ‘great’ ‘fast’ and ‘good’ are the most common words left on the written feedback section. There are a lot of happy users out there. Markets really do work!

As someone who's tried this, this is just not how it works.

Ratings matter a lot on these sites. It's also very different being able to choose from many vendors and see all the reviews vs. getting the number from one guy and having no reference point at the time of purchase.

You are 100x more likely to get ripped off on the street. Why would a business take took effort to build up a rep and a flow of cash risk it so they could rip off a few get bad reviews and lose it all.

Why would an irl dealer rip of a potential customer? Do you have any idea how profitable selling weed is? Wholesale->retail is 100% or more markup, and you have virtually no overhead (bags, gas, time). Reliable customers means reliable cash flow.

I do. When you buy on the street that person was barely able to come up with 170/220 for an O. They sell for 10 dollars a gram to reach 280. They lose weight in sticks and water. They need to end up selling you a .7 for them to make 80/100. Some add water / some use really cheap weed.

Once you find a dealer who buys 500/1000 dollars worth (to make that 100% markup) they don't stand on a corner because those people get robbed / arrested. But they expect customers to buy larger amounts.

Hmmmm. Street dealers make the most per gram, but do the most hustle and probably make the least overall in terms of profit. The middleman buying and selling between the growers and the dealers makes decent money with little risk, while the growers themselves tend to make the least by weight, but make decent profit. Especially factoring in the expenses of growing and the risks they take. The middlemen, like with most businesses tend to be the biggest winners as far as making money vs getting caught and going to jail goes. They just need to have some starting money and their job ends up being pretty easy as long as they don't get caught. By middlemen I mean the ones buying multiple pounds off growers to sell to street dealers or to have street dealers hustle for them with.

Though here at least, with dispenseries and legalization, that's all changed.

> Also, you don't get repeat customers if you kill them, so online procured products are usually of a quality high enough you will be a repeat customer (and not die).

It seems like that argument would apply to in person deals too.

Yes, but meeting in person introduces unnecessary risk. People have been shot and killed selling their Xbox online when they meet up [1]. Derisk, derisk, derisk.

[1] https://fox6now.com/2019/07/05/police-2-arrested-in-killing-...

Oh of course, I'm just saying that particular argument of quality doesn't seem unique to online sales.

Buying drugs over the internet and having them mailed to your house puts you at risk of federal felony charges. Lower one risk, increase another.

Unlikely. The package will be confiscated if found at a border crossing or in transit, but it doesn't appear charges are brought against the recipient (the sender might be pursued though if within the jurisdiction; this is why I assume many of these types of shipments originate outside of the US). Not that I recommend doing so, especially with anything considered a controlled substance or on a federal schedule.

Most people buy drugs online with delivery in-country, to get around borders and customs.

You're still right though - most often the marshals will just confiscate the box and leave you a note about how you can claim it if you really want it.

There's reviews, seller ratings, and often test results from some EU lab or via store bought tests. It's kinda like amazon and could probably be gamed but it's probably less likely whatever you're buying will be deadly.

The websites are set up so that you would not make a profit if you tried to game the system.

There are reviews, you can see seller history, you don’t have to interact with someone in a dark alley and bring wads of cash with you, the package arrives discreetly, etc.

nobody buys drugs in a dark alley. people buy drugs in parked cars or living rooms.

Ok? Drugs are bought everywhere.

that's true, but the way you paint it sounds like there is no web of trust or reputation IRL and that its all shady ad-hoc meetings. buying smack off of a random stranger is junkie behavior. considering the estimated size of the black drug market, there is no way most drug users fit into this category. most drug users must be functional for the market to be that big. ergo the most likely scenario does not take place in a dark alley among strangers.

At the very least, buying drugs in person comes with the risk of getting punched in the face in exchange for your money.

In all honesty, when I was young buying street drugs was appealing for the hustle, risk, excitement, and mischief. Often I'd simply resell it for double the thrill. Perhaps with that element gone it might actually be less appealing for some.

No drug dealer punches you in the face for money... drug dealers make money by you coming back for more. Only a crackhead would punch you for money

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about drug buying in this thread in general. You're right, and I'll add that they also make money by word of mouth -- not just you coming back, but bringing a friend, extending a network of trust, etc. Punching someone in the face doesn't exactly engender that kind of thing for one's business.

The only people I know who buy drugs from comparative strangers do so almost exclusively in the food courts of shopping malls, for some reason. Presumably it makes it a little harder to get mugged.

Theoretically, sure, but in practice it's not safer:

- Law Enforcement has been getting better at tracing and taking down markets, meaning the reputation systems keep getting reset and the authentic dealers are being arrested. Markets will get taken over by law enforcement and honeypotted, with BTC transactions being traced.

- Dealers and scammers have multiple aliases, sometimes even in the same market. One common strategy is to sell high quality product until a modest reputation is built on one alias, and then to 'cash out' by switching to cut junk or getting people to finalize escrow early and just not deliver. Wash, rinse, repeat with multiple aliases in parallel. It's so common it's called the exit scam.

- I've also seen firsthand some people get threats from dealers on tor forums, because they left negative reviews. Keep in mind the dealer has an idea where you live, but you have no idea who they are. You also don't know if the dealer has another alias that is going to cut your product with fentanyl, RCs, or rat poison next time because they recognize your delivery address.

They're just some risks, we could also say: - Local drug dealer knows where you live and cut /threaten you - Local drug dealer can find out a lot about you, and mess with your job or family etc - Local drug dealers often always have cut or non pure 'product' - Local drug dealers from what I've read and seen, are much more likely to fuck you over than drug dealers on DNMs

The point here is that in Local vs. Darkweb, you still have means of having a way to identify the dealer when you buy face to face, or know them through a friend of a friend. Darkweb you have no idea.

Why would a drug dealer want to inflict violence on you????

Killing your cash flow is usually not a good practice. People are more likely to take your money and fuck off.

Best practices:

-Use VPN -Use a PO Box and not your home address -Use Monero and not BTC -Buy from sellers that ship quickly and check recent reviews in the last week or so -On the point about reputation gaming, you could use to you advantage by buying from a newer seller with a few good reviews knowing they are highly incentivized to ship quickly high quality product to get your review.

I agree 110%, but there are still issues:

- VPNs are not perfect. IIRC Wall Street Market was busted in part using an exploit on the admin's VPN.

- You need to use your real name and ID when renting a PO Box, and most dealers require you to share the full name for delivery to a PO Box, since that increases the odds of a successful delivery. The only workaround here is to register an LLC and use that company name for the PO box.

- Last I checked, most markets still do not allow Monero. Empire market had a "bug" but that caused everyone to lose their monero, and they haven't re-enabled Monero last time I checked, effectively forcing everyone to use BTC.

- Fake reviews are easy. If you buy from a newer seller you run the increased risk of a being scammed or getting harmful product. Luckily dealers are lazy though and will make all their fake reviews at once.

> Last I checked, most markets still do not allow Monero. You can use services like XMR.to to convert Monero to BTC and use that. Buying Monero initially to preserve anonymity, then converting smaller amounts to BTC to use for the markets.

The vast majority of trusted exchanges won't even let you get an account without multiple forms of identification, meaning you're still traceable if you don't use some shady unknown exchange/tumbler (which could also be a honeypot).

Reread the comment again, do you know much about Monero?

Otherwise I buy BTC on Bisq without asking anyones permission nor handing over license + passport details.

If the exchange has your information, that means you're identified when you convert monero to BTC and vice versa. You're traceable from the market regardless because the BTC leads back to the exchange wallet that required multiple forms of your identification to use.

Sigh,the bullshit asymmetry principle at work.

Can you please read the original comment and understand that Monero is claiming to be not traceable. Make no claims for them but some well regarded mathematicians do.

Can you read about xmr.to the site that uses a very large prominent Bitcoin exchange as a backend yet still has an onion frontend to exchange XMR to BTC.

Can you also read my comment about buying Bitcoin from Bisq without providing any centralized source with passports/licenses/dna.

What exactly is your point here, incredibly interested in some elucidation?

I'll pay you $10,000 (held in escrow) if you can show me how to prove ownership of coins going from Bitcoin to Monero to Bitcoin via xmr.to

Any day, any time. Offer is open to anyone in Earth.

Reply here for interested parties.

Nobody here is claiming that Monero alone is traceable. No one.

The proposed solution was to convert/tumble Monero with BTC. My reply is that the majority of the trusted exchanges where you do said conversions require multiple forms of identification from you to even have an account. Even the more popular ones like shapeshift.io have switched to verified accounts as law enforcement has cracked down on above-the-table exchanges. XMR.to is not a trusted exchange.

So when you use BTC on the honeypot market, the law enforcement can trace the BTC back to your exchange and make a request there for your information. It doesn't matter if Monero is involved because the BTC exit point from the exchange to the market is still traceable to you.

Drug dealers have always had holiday specials.

Or so I've heard.

Is this a narco-submarine article?

http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine

Thought the darknet was in abit of chaos at the moment?

Why do you think that?

Thought some of the popular markets are down, dread is down

Oh wow, I wasn't aware dread is down.

It's very much a target of certain nation states for ddos, which is apparently ok when the police do it, the ones with the eyes have a strange hypocrisy about drugs given the evidence of vastly improved safety from the darknet vendors. Then again they always have.

Governments tend to indulge in hypocrisy as standard operating practice. They also reserve the right to kill people and confiscate property because, as much as the average person might find comfort in order, legislation and institutions, the reality of the world is you can do whatever you want unless someone can stop you, and there are not a lot of people or organisations that can stop a government.

Markets have been dropping like flies to law enforcement and DDOS extortion. Nobody is entirely certain what to trust.

TLDR: people who do things you don't approve still share the same culture you do, live in the same world, and celebrate like you do.

Because they are human too

This has been happening for years. The deals some vendors offer on weed leading up to 4/20 have always been jaw dropping.

Shouldn't this be Cyber Monday? Or are these bricks and mortar dealers?

Fun story but this isn't really news. Sales is sales. All sales tricks are a bit, well, tricky; marketers are trying to convince us to buy things we might not. At least with drugs people already want them.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com