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Comment by mmanfrin | Hacker News Reader

I've found the reviews on a brand's own store page to be next to useless. The whole page is meant to sell me on a product, why would I trust "reviews" that are likely curated? Although, if I do find negative reviews on a retailer's site, it does engender some trust.

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Many ‘accessory’ products had overwhelmingly negative reviews, because Apple's form-over-function philosophy means that they're genuinely hot garbage.

… so they fixed the glitch.

¹ e.g. one I'm familiar with http://web.archive.org/web/20191113224149/https://www.apple....

Apple may choose form over function, but the power adaptors are a good example of how they still spent more time thinking of function than any competitor.

For the typical "elongated black box" notebook charger, a cumulative sum of exactly zero effort was spent on improving it in either form or function. Meanwhile, Apple had MagSafe (which is nothing but function), the extendable prongs to wrap the cable, or the little clip to fix the cable into place. Both Apple and non-Apple adaptors usually have detachable cables, but for the non-Apple variety it's only purpose was to streamline internal processes to provide country-specific plugs, whereas Apple used the opportunity to allow the adaptor to be used with a long cable or a cable-less plug.

Their adaptors are also smaller and lighter, both Watt-for-Watt and even more so considering competitors often choose overpowered adaptors because they happen to be cheap to procure or they already use it and want to keep their inventory simple. And if you search, you'll find that semi-famous deep dive examine the inside of one of their adaptors, and how they are spending at least twice as much on components to safely isolate the high- and low-voltage sides and provide constant quality at any level of power draw.

But yeah, the cable fraying sucks.

The first generations of magsafe adapters did not have stress relief at all, because form over function was still in full swing. Every charger had the cable completely break apart at the connection to the brick, because stress relief ruined the pretty minimalist design.

To say it's nothing but function means denying the evidence.

    Every charger had the cable completely break apart at
    the connection to the brick, because stress relief ruined
    the pretty minimalist design.

I had one of these. Mine didn't break. A lot of them broke, to be sure - but that's because the users don't understand that a multiwire cable isn't a shoelace and shouldn't have knots and zero-radius bends inflicted on it.

I've always been careful with my magsafe chargers, and I'm a former recording studio engineer so I'm not a newbie about cables and strain relief. However, using my laptop on my lap provided too much exercise. The insulation on every magsafe I've ever owned has failed eventually.

These things were spec'd to go on table tops and then never move. It's a crying shame because otherwise magsafe was a really elegant design.

You don't have to be careful with laptop charging cables from any other manufacturer. This is not a problem intrinsic to multiwire cables. It's a problem limited to cables from this particular manufacturer. You could strangle an elephant with a charging cable from Dell or Lenovo and the cable would be none the worse for wear.

the problem is not just when you wrap it, is that if you move the cable in any way (say, move your laptop around, trip on the cable, etc), it will bend in that spot.

If you tie up your cable in the loop-up-then-down-then-sidewise it will improve things, but then you will put it in your bag and it will bend at that spot anyway as soon as some pressure is applied on the up-loop.

This is why every manufacturer uses strain relief, including apple now.

Saying "users are using the product the wrong way!" is the epitome of form over function.

I'm convinced the heating of the brick is a contributing factor to the cable 'sliding out' near the brick. I treat my charging cables like they are made of spiderwebs and I'm on my third magsafe.

I try to keep the brick laying flat on my tile floor for this reason. The tile surface is a reasonably effective and convenient heat sink; moreso than a carpet floor or wood table anyway.

I wish they'd just make these things properly.

All you say was kinda true for the magsafe ones, I recently saw the adapter that comes with a new macbook air:

- no little clip anymore

- no long cable anymore

- not the smallest Watt-for-Watt anymore (the new GaN ones are smaller)

- and of course: no magsafe anymore...

But I'm sure that three years from now they will have the "courage" to go back to their older superior design.

They’ve managed that courage for their keyboards now.

All Magsafe chargers I've seen fell apart in a few years time. Even chargers that were used only on a desk and saw no stress had their cable expand a little near the connector (enough for the small clip got stuck), then turned yellow, then yellow-green and sticky, finally becoming brittle and just eroding away.

I have never experienced anything like this with other brands nor with no-name brick chargers. Even Chinese knock-off replacement cables for Magsafe chargers didn't fail like that.

Cables turning yellow and sticky is a uniquely Apple experience.

I have boxes of cables accumulated over decades. Every other brand of cable is basically in the same condition it was when it went into storage.

But Apple cables are fucking disgusting (there is simply no other way to say it). Why are they so sticky? Why are they so yellow? Every Apple cable seems to be affected--headphones, power supplies,and dongles.

My guess is it has something to do with the "soft" touch finish and the white coloring.

IIRC the thing that makes BPA plastic yellow over time is the gradual oxidation of a fire-retardant chemical added to it. You can reverse this process with bleach+UV light, reducing the chemical back to its non-oxidized form (sort of like how you can use activated charcoal to absorb moisture from the air, and then bake it to re-activate it.) If your 30yo white plastic isn't yellow, that's because the manufacturer skimped on the fire-retardant and it's likely highly flammable.

No idea about why some plastics get sticky, though. I'd imagine it's the plastic's polymer literally breaking down, but it might also be some additive "sweating" out. Maybe it's the very same fire-retardant chemical. (Old yellowing hard plastics don't get sticky, but they don't tend to have plasticizers in them, so they need far less flame-retardant.)

Somebody told me a while back that Apple cables self-destruct when other cables don't because a while back Green Peace talked Apple into no longer using PVC for their cables. The replacement plastic is presumably better for the environment but is less durable (possibly negating any environmental benefits by increasing the amount of e-waste produced?)

I don't know how much truth there is to this theory though. It doesn't seem to explain the poor strain relief.

If that were the case, I’d expect that Apple would use it in their marketing. A more environmentally friendly cable could be a good selling point.

Oh, they do: https://www.apple.com/environment/our-approach/

> "Every Apple product is free of PVC and phthalates with the exception of AC power cords in India, Thailand, and South Korea, where we continue to seek government approval for our PVC and phthalates replacement."

Investigating magsafe cable durability in those countries might be a way to corroborate or refute the PVC theory, though I wouldn't know where to start.

I never knew that! From their "Integrating Toxicological Assessments in Material Selection for Apple Products" white paper:

"Removal of BFRs and PVC were challenging since alternatives were not readily available at the time. The largest obstacle was identifying a replacement to PVC in AC power cords, where strict safety standards favored PVC and created barriers to its elimination. Apple worked with multiple material suppliers and tested dozens of different formulations until the right combination of performance and safety were achieved with lower toxicological and ecological risk than PVC. Apple then had to persuade dozens of safety agencies around the world to allow it to certify the alternative materials. Millions of PVC-free power cords are in use today with Apple products."

https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Toxicology_in_Material...

They might be lighter, but I consider not having a cord in between the heavy transformer and the wall plug to be a design flaw. Unless you have receptacles with vicegrip like prongs, like they are when they brand new, the transformers tend to unplug themselves over time due to their weight and gravity.

Edit: Oh, and whatever they put in that white rubber seems to really attract cats. Not sure what it is, but it's the only cables in my house that the cats like to chew on. Friends/family have experienced the same.

I’m pretty sure MacBooks come with a cable that extend its range. The official name for is a “power adapter extension cable.”

New ones do not include this cable in the box anymore.

The Apple Tax, aka spending $60+ on a new adapter for each Macbook you own every 2 years.

I'm and Android user, my wife uses iPhone and Mac. Ive a pretty decent LG phone (the camera in particular is better than hers in low light conditions) and my phone cost about half of hers. She goes through 2-3 cables per year. I have never had to replace a cable (although I primarily use wireless charging). She is rough on the cables, as she charges on the couch with our dog and cats coming charging through. Plus, she's a little rough on things to begin with (she drops her phone while charging a lot). Still, I cannot understand buying 3 cables per year.

I do buy spares for my phone, but so I can have one for each place I spend a lot of time: bed, home office and work office. But, I only buy them once, and only when the port changes (e.g. Micro USB to Type C). Also, having now had several devices with wireless charging, doubt I'll ever buy another phone that doesnt have it.

Having my wife buy nearly $200 of apple chargers each year is certainly a tax of sorts.

> Although, if I do find negative reviews on a retailer's site, it does engender some trust.

A marketing friend of mine calls this "verisimilitude."

Hah! It's hilarious, and sad, that this is a concept in marketing.

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