This may reflect your subjective experience, but I have had a different experience and would (kindly) give you the heads up that this is a borderline sexist generalization. I've met women in the industry that are just as capable as nerding out over new tech as I am - even if it hasn't been very common (in my experience).
No, it's an explicitly sexist generalization, based on the reality that interests tend to be heavily gendered across disciplines and across societies. I also think it's absurd that we're supposed to dance around this fact in the name of politeness when it's right in front of our faces and affects almost every social interaction we have in life.
Obviously, most women don't code, because most people don't code. The likelihood of bumping into a woman randomly and her being able to nerd out about the latest NodeJS framework with you is about as likely as being able to bump into anyone and discuss the pros and cons to some new breakthrough in materials science - most people just aren't experienced in the field...
My goal is to share a friendly word of hope to guys out there that might think there aren't ladies who will want to nerd out about code with them. There certainly are. You just need to put yourself in the right environment to meet people who have similar experience. Your local bar (unless you're in a very software heavy town), likely isn't the best place. Conferences, meetups, etc, might be worth checking out for meeting like-minds.
Though, generally speaking, if you're looking for a conversation topic for a date, code wouldn't be my first suggestion. It's like talking politics. You might land yourself in an opinionated argument really quickly - fighting about the tradeoffs to upgrading to python3...
If you don't have any other interests to talk about with a partner besides code, I highly suggest expanding your horizons. Learn to cook, or snowboard, or get into a popular TV show. Anything to diversify your personal experiences. It'll at least give you some fuel for more interesting conversations.
Most men don't want to talk about code either.
"since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code"
is in fact some sexist bullshit.
I dare you to go to an average bar or club and try to talk about code with most young women. It's not happening. Most people don't code, and most coders are male.
- A shared niche interest is not sufficient basis for a good relationship.
- I’m a woman in tech and I don’t necessarily wanna talk code on a first or second date, I’ve got professional development figured out on my own time.
Because lots of programmers loves to talk about code?
> A shared niche interest is not sufficient basis for a good relationship.
Then what is a good basis for a relationship? A shared interest in ubiquitous interests like food, blockbusters or travel? I don't think that is much better.
> I’m a woman in tech and I don’t necessarily wanna talk code on a first or second date, I’ve got professional development figured out on my own time.
Good for you, not everyone feels like that though.
I dare you to go to an average bar or club and try to talk about code to literally any person.
Most people don't want to talk code. Thus, given a demographic breakdown that relates neither positively nor negatively with talking code, one can assume the general pattern applies.
Most old people don't want to talk code.
Most young people don't want to talk code.
Most left handed people don't want to talk code.
None of these are discriminating. They are stating that a pattern true of the general population also applies to a demographic partition of the population.
Because making broad assumptions about 50% of the population isn't a cool thing to do. Especially given the excessive amount of nonsense women in tech (and not in tech) have to deal with on a daily basis. Talk like this leads to women feeling excluded from the tech community.
Also, specifically calling out "young women" as not being interested in tech really makes a lot of assumptions. Generally, people will talk about most topics - even if they aren't passionate about those topics themselves. Most women I know will happily talk about tech stuff with me, so maybe your approach is wrong.
Is it that those assumptions are not cool to make about 100% of the population either? Is it wrong of me to assume that the average person does not want to talk about code?
Because if it isn't wrong to make the assumption about the average person, but it is wrong to make it about some subset, then isn't that, at its very core, treating that demographic different than the average?
>Generally, people will talk about most topics - even if they aren't passionate about those topics themselves.
Yes, most people will engage in enough conversation to be polite. But there is a significant difference between talking about something a person cares about and them politely carrying on a conversation they aren't interested in. These are not the same behavior and do not generally result in the same outcome . And none of this has to do with gender as I notice this when talking with friends of either gender.
No it is not in any meaningful way since the statement is true about both subsets as well as the average person set. The claim is no meaningful distinction is made by specifying the subset of women from all people. In fact I've found every generalization I have ever made about women or men on second thought has been true, and more meaningfully true, for all people (though it may apply differently to men or women).
Anyway all the women I've met in tech are exceptional though I guess it's caused by them being exceptions in a system that treats them as exceptions amongst exceptions. Which is the real reason to minimize talking about women as a subset since whatever causes anyone in a subset to identify with a group is roughly the same cause as the majority in the group.
Unless the person was making the claim because that was the subset they were interested in dating, which is how I read the original statement. It was a generalization of all people, but in this case they were only concerned with how it applied to the subset of people they were interested in dating.
They could have avoided the whole problem by instead specifying "people I'm interested in dating", but one has to wonder the cost of having to take that level of care with one's words and the effect of this level of care being discriminatory in where it has to be applied.
Technology touches everyone. Of course they want to know about how it works!
> Finding intimate relationships becomes particularly difficult when you can't achieve the inspiration since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code, or tech, or any of the things HN types tend to dedicate our lives to.
they are talking about their personal dating life (or lack thereof).
Are truth and sexistness orthogonal axes?
If you had to choose between saying something true but sexist and non-sexist but untrue, which would you pick?
They were interested in "intimate relationships" with women. If I'm wanting to date a woman, I never bring up my tech knowledge. I tell them I'm an inventor who works on things that help people get things done, stop bad folks, etc. I tell them the goals in terms of what effects it has on people with no details. Women like that since non-technical ones see its value and more-technical ones still focus on people effects a bit more than guys. If woman wants tech details, I give them that. Virtually never happened outside tech-focused places like HN or Lobsters.
I talk abstractly about it because the second I mention code I get tuned out, friend-zoned or some association with Hollywood's nerd characters (eg Big Bang Theory or some nerd on cop show). That's how most of them think across the tens of thousands I've interacted with in customer-focused jobs, parties, and public places. You don't even have to come onto them or anything to find out: just bring up tech in a 3rd-person way... 3rd person to separate it from yourself in their perception... and watch how they tune out, cut it down, or otherwise mentally shift gears.
I stay on what they're likely to be interested in, be my fun/somewhat-bad self, etc. Once they know and like me, I drop some of that tech stuff in there. If anything, they just nod like it's some weird hobby I have, a nice thing to do on the side, sometimes just confused about a useless thing I do, or whatever. There's no strong connection most have to it that would benefit me in the slightest. I'm just telling them about it to be more honest at that point. Then, I usually move onto other topics with most people, esp women, often forgetting I even do tech. That's intentional given I lose opportunities with most people due to that association.
It's rare that anybody outside tech areas thinks that stuff is neat or important. And those are almost always married. (sighs) Well, they still make good friends and coworkers. I tell them that, too. Always gets a smile or laugh out of them. Meanwhile, it's a hard fact that most women aren't into guys that engineer, code, or secure things.
Epilogue: Funniest part is that most people talking about sexism in coding will tell you all kinds of ways society keeps women out of it. The actual sexism keeps women uninterested in deep, hands-on tech while reinforcing their interest in other things. Then, some of you talk about how it's sexist to think most women aren't going to be interested in tech or tech workers. I mean, it's a natural effect of both womens' interests in general and sexism that pushes women away from tech. Be consistent people.
"I've met women in the industry that are just as capable as nerding out over new tech as I am"
Adding this in there just in case anyone misreads my reply. In industry or tech-anything, we should ask open-ended questions to get to know each other instead of assuming anything. Folks will definitely meet others super-interested and capable in tech that they might not have expected to meet. There will be plenty of women along that path since they went to those places specifically because they were interested in tech, were nerds, and so on. This gets us back to don't judge people in general until you've had a chance to meet them. Look at meeting each person as maybe opening up opportunities for who knows what.
The person I responded about was talking dates and meaningful relationships outside work, though. That's a different thing altogether. That's what my comment addressed.