Senators ask if Facebook 'really' lets users opt out of location tracking | Hacker News Reader

Senators ask if Facebook 'really' lets users opt out of location tracking

arstechnica.com

155 pointsbookofjoe36 comments

I applaud the scrutiny but it's way too slow. By today Google and Facebook and Amazon combined likely have the physical and virtual movements, geographical residencies, the geographical key places, and the personal and commercial interests of most, if not all, of the people connected to the internet.

The hammer needs to be quicker and hit much harder (north of 20% revenue, for example) if we want any measures to be effective. With that tempo the current internet won't exist until the lawmakers wake up to the realities of the big internet corporations.

Useless or useful(at your own taste), but it would be nice if they have to wipe out that kind of data from time to time. Your life evolves your data should evolve with you too(if you want to). You really don’t remember everything from your past, but this characteristic is being externalized to third parties. I understand the government should retain some of this data, but why a private company should retain it too.

I really like it when facebook shows me random pictures of my kids from 5 years ago. This data is far more valuable to me than if I kept it, if only because looking at those pictures becomes a bigger event - thus one I do less often.

Things like Apple's Photos do this too but without the accompanying privacy risks.

Less cool when you keep showing you photos of your exes every year on the dot.

I imagine your view on this would change rapidly if you were to lose your children in a terrible accident.

Isn’t that the point behind Europe’s Right to be Forgotten law?

20% of revenue really isn't that bad if it wipes the slate clean for a company like Facebook. It will cut their enterprise value by about 3%. Shareholders would be thrilled.

Life in prison for the board and c suite.

Wouldn't make sense until you gave the same to the CEOs who actually kill people, like the creators of the opioid crisis

Count them in too. Pack em in at 500% the headcount per cell and we can save on heat.

Facebook doesn't let you opt out of anything. Consent isn't a term they understand

I would prefer to not pretend that they can't understand the ethically reprehensible decisions they make.

> they can't understand the ethically reprehensible decisions they make

Selection effect. Those who thought through what they were doing quit. Those remaining are happy to turn a blind eye for a paycheque (out of greed and/or necessity).

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

Along the lines of opting out, they don't let you log out of Instagram if you have a Facebook account linked to it. Click the logout button and notice how they ask you if <username> is you. Click this button to "continue" and magically you're logged in. No asking for a password! Just click a button because you never really logged out. Ridiculous!

Google did about the same with Youtube when they pillaged it.

Oh, they understand it very well, because they know exactly how to subvert it.

As long as they store your ip in their logs, they know where you have been.

Would it possible to somehow run a local proxy or tor-like program that hides your IP address from internal programs and only provides localhost or some such. And then on the other end I suppose you'd have to connect through some sort of tor node to connect to their actual servers too. Poorly thought out question, but I've never really thought of something like a reverse tor that hides things from your own personal applications.

That would be a VPN, no?

If the app doesn't need internet than blocks its access to the network.

If it needs access use a VPN.

If you're trying to evade cross device fingerprinting then I can get you some info.

If you're trying to evade state sponsored attackers then you're probably already hosed.

Oh, there's way more.

Your pictures have metadata. Your pictures have actual landmarks. They have faces of people that have FB location tracking on. The inverse is also true, pictures from other people with you on them.

They can infer from instrumentation if you're sat down, time of day (so probably at home). Download and upload speeds, you're probably on wifi.

They buy and sell and correlate data with other companies and advertisers.

There's dozens of ways to know where people are. Location tracking on the phone is real time and reliable, but they likely have enough data to ballpark the whereabouts of everyone on Earth!

I'm reminded of the lyrics: You can check out anytime you like but you can never leave.

I suspect even if facebook, google, apple, etc let users "opt out" explicitly, they use other methods to implicitly track users. If all else fails, they can buy data to "fill in the blanks" later on.

Why don't laws about installing a gps tracker on a car apply to installing a gps tracker on my person?

Facebook is exactly breaking the law at least in many states.

Its so clearly illegal and wrong. I really don't understand why someone doesn't stop them.

Can I form a corporation, employ myself, then act with impunity too?

> Can I form a corporation, employ myself, then act with impunity too?

Pretty much, although you won't be very popular

Single-member corporations provide little legal protection. Piercing the corporate veil is pretty easy if the corporation can be shown to be operating merely as a proxy for a single person.

Facebook is not equivalent to law enforcement (not yet anyway). You don't have to use or have a Facebook account. You also don't have to have the app installed on your phone.

Why is everyone answering the question like I'm talking about the police? Is it legal for any person off the street to install a GPS tracker on someone else's car?

IANAL.

Technically probably not at the moment, but this would affect the notion of intent and increase penalties if you used this information to commit another crime, like murder, burglarly, etc.

Is it illegal for me to stand in the public street outside of your house and note when you arrive and leave and other observable-from-public factors?

Honestly you bring up a good point. We definitely need an update to our laws to specifically address privacy. The Constitution was written when people lived tens or even hundreds of miles from each other.

Not for any random person, but it certainly can happen with your "consent" as part of some terms and conditions - for example, a car manufacturer or a financing company that's handling your leasing or a car service shop certainly might install a GPS tracker in your car.

And wasn't it just recently in the news that all major USA cell phone providers are selling your location tracking data to third parties?

The 4th amendment guarantees protection against unreasonable search and seizure by the government.

Wiretaps can (depending on state) takes hundreds of pages of paperwork, and months of documentation and review, before they get approved. But if you work for a company, and they tell you that they are monitoring phone calls made from company phones, you just have to deal with it.

What does the 4th amendment say about non law enforcement persons installing a GPS tracker on my car.

Can I go and buy a gps tracker and install it on your car? If not, why is Facebook or Google or whoever allowed to install one on my phone?

It had nothing to do with the 4th amendment. I can buy a GPS tracker on amazon right now. You don't have to be a cop to install a tracker.

Depending on where you are, there may be laws regarding stalking. The problem is that you “consented” (agreed) to the TOS when you signed up.

Facebook tracks you even if you don't have a Facebook account though. And if I signed up in 2009 did I really agree to sharing location data on a smart phone in 2019??

Completely aside I'm finding how much data my Android phone shares extremely intrusive.

You may have an argument if you never signed up, but if you did, you agreed (when checking the “I agree to the TOS” box) that Facebook can make changes to their TOS and you agree to the new changes. Basically, Facebook can change their terms at any time and there’s jack squat you can do about it if you want to keep using the site.

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