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Comment by yingw787 | Hacker News Reader

I honestly really like Amtrak, at least on the Northeast Regional. No baggage fees, large comfortable chairs (I thought coach class was business the first time I rode it, then I discovered business class had tables), no real security restrictions (yet), the notion of quiet cars, and nice scenery. Maybe it's because I don't ride Amtrak regularly and so every time I ride it it's a novelty, but I underrated it and it exceeded my expectations every time so far.

If you're not going between D.C. and Boston then maybe it'll be different, but if you're riding on the one line Amtrak has to keep operational or it'll die completely, I think it should be fine.

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I go from DC to Boston weekly and couldn't disagree more. The NE Regional or Acela add, all things considered, anywhere from a 4x - 8x time multiplier over air travel, and is about double the cost on average.

Even when I was going DC > NYC years back it was barely worth the trouble, and still more than flying, only benefit being you land right in the middle of NYC and don't have the nightmare transit from NYC area airports.

I'm not saying there aren't things to like about air travel, especially if you have an axe to grind. Definitely faster, prices are competitive, and they probably innovate faster too given much higher sales volume. But I would say overall I prefer the Amtrak experience, especially if time is not a bounding factor. And it's not always an either-or. I mostly take Amtrak from BWI to Union Station, because flying out of Baltimore-BWI is much cheaper than Dulles-IAD or Reagan-DCA.

By the time you add airport parking and transport from the airport to the city (unless you take the subway) it's break-even on price for DC->NYC. It's easily break-even on timing given that front door to train in Union Station is 15 minutes, and, as you point out, you're dropped in the center of Manhattan.

DC->Boston full trip would obviously be insane - it's 6 1/2 hours even on Acela. But, probably preferable to driving.

I like that the stated travel time is the actual amount of time out of your day

You show up in the middle of one city and wind up in the middle of another city

Big contrast from airports.

But Amtrak is too expensive and slow compared to other developed nations high speed trains, especially in Northeast corridor. Everything I said earlier applies to Japan, and western Europe.

This is a really weird comment from the perspective of Europe. Why would you have to pay for baggage on a train? Standard class doesn't have tables? Why would you have security restrictions on a train?

(Ok on the last point, I believe some high speed trains have light security checks.)

In France, on some trains (ouigo) you pay extra for baggage

At least in France, the low cost trains ("OUIGO") do charge for baggage larger than a carry-on.

But I think the OP was comparing a train to flying, you don't pay for baggage on a train but you would if taking a flight.

... because Ouigo is super cheap. They're following the same model as low-cost airlines: the tickets are cheap, but you pay for everything else (baggage, access to charging sockets, etc.).

NYC to DC round trip is 6 hours scheduled time by train or 3 hours scheduled time by air. Granted Penn and Union stations are more convenient than Newark and Reagan airports, but not that much more convenient.

It is a nicer trip though, I'll give you that. But not nice enough to mean an extra day away from home.

Taking into account the security checks and transport to and from the airport, the flight might take significantly longer than the the train, especially if you’re flying at a busy time. Plus planes are more likely to have delays.

I've been regularly 6-18 hours late on Amtrak, which is longer than the length of the flight alone. At least when planes are delayed you usually know ahead of time and can just not go to the airport.

You usually arrive at the airport 60-90 minutes before a flight, vs 30 minutes before a train. And train station locations will give you a 30 minute advantage over airport locations. So really we're comparing 3.5-4.5 hrs for a flight vs 6.5 hours for a train. Trains are also a lot more comfortable, have charging points even in economy class, and don't charge baggage fees.

Not if you are a regular traveler. In that case you have global entry and/or clear, and aren't checking a bag. Depending on the exact terminal you can get to the airport about 15 minutes before boarding, 45 minutes before listed departure. The bulk of the advantage is the location of the terminal stations, which is real but not as significant as it is being made out here. I mean maybe if you live right at Penn Station and your meeting is right by Union Station, but if you coming from, say, LIC and going to Georgetown, you may be happier with LGA and DCA than NYP and Union Station.

You're absolutely correct about the comfort points, but price should be just as strongly in the train's favor and it isn't.

Georgetown to Union station is about four miles and the circulator bus will take you there for a buck. DCA is about six miles and accessible by Metro. Seems about the same.

> Not if you are a regular traveler

The regular travelers have voted in numbers for Amtrak between DC and NYC over air travel, preferring it for the last decade[0]. They have been growing the number of trips and have even been able to go further up market with the new Acela nonstop this year. The truth is, passengers are voting with their dollars for the train between NYC and DC.

[0] https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2014/11/why-more-nort...

NYC and DC don't really project to other metros. Travel to and from Penn Station vs the airports is a non-trivial consideration to passengers. It is expensive or time consuming or a PITA to travel to JFK/LGA/EWR on public transit with a bag. I lived in Brooklyn and made the NYC/DC commute 15 or so times a year for many years and that was a significant issue for me, it just wasn't cost or time effective to fly in _NYC_.

I now live in Maine and wouldn't consider for a second taking the train to NYC. I'll fly out of PWM or, if I want flexibility, drive there. There is a non-stop bus that I'd prefer, too.

It helps that due to a mix of incompetence and lack of support from the governor‘s office that there is no direct train link through Boston that a train from Maine might use to get to NYC.

The OP was also looking at round-trip times (NYC to DC is about 3hr each way), so double all of those ancillary numbers.

>vs 30 minutes before a train

wait, what? Why? Here as long as I'm there before it departs it's fine.

Got it off the Amtrak website.

From a European perspective, arriving at the train station 30 minutes in advance sounds completely absurd. I'd say 10 minutes is much closer to the average here (Germany). I took Amtrak from DC to NYC once and the whole boarding process seemed needlessly time-wasting.

The actual train trip from NYC to DC is 3-3.5 hours each way, and both ends are smack in the middle of the city.

If you’re flying, Dulles and BWI are 45 minutes from downtown DC (or more); ditto for the NYC end, and you need to factor in another hour+ for security. I think air travel might end up slower—-and it’s certainly less pleasant.

Okay but you're flying into DCA, not BWI or IAD, and from there it's a ~15 minute metro into the heart of the city.

Agree with you on the other points, though.

> and you need to factor in another hour+ for security

Just an anecdote, but with TSA Pre, I haven’t needed more than 15 minutes for security, flying domestically and internationally several times per year for the past few years.

> with TSA Pre, I haven’t needed more than 15 minutes for security

Same. With Clear, that goes down to 5 minutes tops. Add in airport lounges, and showing up a bit early goes from being a nuisance to a pleasure (or opportunity to be productive).

I’m a huge fan of trains, but they’re only marginally competitive for passengers in the Northeast.

At least for the north or south subset of the Northeast Corridor the type of transportation honestly boils down to preference. Train is in the comfortable but relatively pricey and slow end of the equation. I could drive from Central Mass to New York cheaper and faster than train but I hate doing that drive.

This probably depends a lot on exactly when/where you’re flying.

Even if it seemed true for me, I’m not sure I’d bet the price of a ticket (and my schedule) on it always working out.

I was in that boat for a while, but it's been rocky recently at a few airports that I fly in and out of as the number of Pre users have gone up and airports have toyed with the idea of Pre only lines (which sometimes are far from where you actually want to be). I think it's coming back to normal, but there have been several times over the last year where I've considered using the regular line for the same of time.

At which airports? I've seen short precheck lines but I've also seen 1h+ lines.

Also, for an airport you are looking at spending $30-50 just to get there in a taxi or Uber.

This is similar to when my wife and I visit the UK, we usually do a week in the south and a week in Scotland. And we traditionally take the LNER between just because Getting to an airport will be a 45-60 minute cab or train, then dealing with security, baggage, etc, so all in all a 3.5-4 hour journey. London Kings Cross <-> Edinburgh Waverley is a 4-5 hour, usually OK train ride (if the A/C is working), and you get on and have wifi (sometimes), and can pull out your laptop and put it on a REAL table.

Every week I commute from NJ to Boston. A jet does the trip in 50 minutes. The Amtrak Express from Newark to Boston is 4 hours. Yet when you take into account the delayed flights, the security, the fact that I cannot sit down and work for most of the time during my air trip, etc... the train wins out every time. It seems to be on time most of the time. And the ride is smooth with free wifi. And sometime I just stare at the beautiful New England scenery.

Are the 1 hour+ delays common? I see them on the board at the station fairly often. But I don't know if I just happen to look each time theres a delay.

Not really. I won’t say I’ve never encountered delays but Boston to NYP service is pretty reliable in my experience. Probably as reliable as any other form of transportation in that congested corridor.

Agreed. In my experience so far, the frequency and severity of delays on Amtrak between NY and DC are on par with the frequency and severity of delays on I-95.

In my experience traveling from western ny to nyc or visa versa, there is always at least a 1 hour delay going through Albany. My record being 2 hours. The reason being they switch out trains with a train coming from a different location. It's super frustrating not knowing how long you're going to be stuck there.

Yes. I've seen an Amtrak train running on time once. They're usually 45min+ late.

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