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Comment by mdorazio | Hacker News Reader

Cynical take: this is all great until it becomes clear to people that the context is actually "one of the executives wants a promotion". Or increasingly common: "profits matter more than any of our purported 'values'".

It gets hard to motivate people when they know they're working on things that are detrimental to the public in some way, or that only exist to make other people look good. Trying to fluff the context in these cases tends to just make people even less motivated because they're not stupid.

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I'd take all of those things as positives.

If the work provides no value and the workers discover it, and stop working on it, the world is better off.

If the work provides negative value (to society) and the workers discover it, and stop working on it, the world is better off.

People should work on things which provide value to themselves, their community, and the world at large. They shouldn't be working on things that actively destroy those. And if the only reason they're working on them is because of a lack of awareness of their impact, then let them learn.

"People should work on things which provide value to themselves, their community, and the world at large. They shouldn't be working on things that actively destroy those."

Unfortunately, lots of folks are working on things whose sole value truly is to put food on the table at home. I think there are few janitors that enjoy cleaning toilets, especially if they work for places where the workers or the public smear feces on the walls. Few folks get motivated to clean portable toilets or to work for minimum wage at a fast food place. Few folks are truly motivated to work retail.

And it doesn't matter that some of these give some small benefit to the community nor that things like fast food is a mixed thing (fast food both provides a benefit and destroys the community) or that lots of laborious jobs tend to destroy one's body - and it only takes one injury or heart attack to make one out of work.

It isn't because they lack awareness of their impact or anything, but more that folks need to survive. Not everyone can get a job with your description for a wide variety of reasons. Besides, at the end of the day society still needs folks to shower old folks in homes and to clean portable toilets, no matter how much they don't fit in your description.

Yes, I wanted to work for a company that makes a positive impact, but one senior manager tried to get me to settle for a lower compensation saying that firefighters or teachers make way less money than IT professionals. I wanted to ask why the executives get millions of dollars as bonuses and are not the ones to be thankful that their salaries are way more than teachers and firefighters. I didn't ask because I am not confrontational and I know that it doesn't make any difference. With experience, you see that most of the values, context or culture people talk about is lip service.

Also when it’s clear that the context is “make money for someone who isn’t you.” Every time I see what the work I’m doing is costing the client, or the expected profits it will generate, I get depressed. I’m making a change that brings the company an extra million dollars, great - but I’m still on the same salary...

I'm in the same boat (but not quite as much money). I'm preparing to ask for a raise by demonstrating how my specific knowledge helps the company perform more efficiently, and how it is less costly to give me a raise than it would be to replace me.

I agree. Best way to motivate people is to demonstrate that leadership and everybody else are in the same boat, share the downside and also the upside.

But in general I think mission driven leadership is good as long as the top doesn’t have a habit of constantly overriding lower level decisions.

This. Work is just like any other endeavor: the questions, "What are we doing?" and, "Why are we doing this?" need to be answered. The first informs the second in that people are generally willing to do truly meaningful work for no compensation, with a decline in the "meaning" necessitating an increase in compensation. If you can't articulate meaning satisfactorily, be prepared to increase compensation. If you can do neither, be prepared for high turnover. People don't want to waste their time.

I have a feeling these points are not lost on the author. Having to own up to the self-serving aspects of your plan does add a little friction that might slow your roll a bit.

There are things you say and things you think. And there are ways of saying things so that you steer people away from their worst (from your perspective) behaviors without calling them out (just saying a thing sometimes gives people ideas, or clues them into your agenda).

And there are always more symbiotic ways to be self-serving, if being self-less is outside of your wheelhouse.

That is, unfortunately, how businesses are organized under capitalism.

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