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Comment by reaperducer | Hacker News Reader

Google Capone: "Hey, nytimes.com, your site loads awful slow. We're gonna have to put this badge of shame on it for everyone to see.

Now, if you just dumped your other ad networks and ran everything through us, I bet it would be load much faster and that badge might magically disappear..."

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Actually one of the things that Lighthouse (Chrome's speed test tool) complains about a lot is some of the things that are a result of using Google's AdSense.

It also throws penalties for using Google Tag Manager and Google Analytics.

Kind of a good sign that Google's internal teams actually work independently and don't give special exemptions to other units of the company?

Way back, the chrome website got penalized by Google (the search engine) for disallowed SEO tricks ;)

That's how it works now, but they can fix it internally whenever they feel like to...

I actually seriously have my doubts about that.

The way that the Google Search unit gives preference to Google AMP unit in its mobile results? Yes, I suppose it's a good sign that they don't also give that sort of exemption here, but I would consider that expected, not praiseworthy.

We’ve also got a section on web.dev focusing on the specific problems that 3rd-party resources can create and how to fix them: https://web.dev/fast/#optimize-your-third-party-resources

We mention that ad scripts are a common type of problematic 3rd-party resource but we use the phrase “3rd-party resource” because there are lots of other common problematic scripts, like A/B tests, social media widgets, and analytics scripts.

Disclosure: I work on web.dev

Ok, you got a click out of me....

This sort of basic advice (use browser features to defer loading, and plead with the masters not to ask for so much JavaScript) is obviously already considered by the HN audience and so this link is basically useless.

I strongly disagree with this comment.

I sincerely doubt 100% of the HN audience always considers those things.

You might think some of those things are basic, but that doesn't make them useless.

This kind of lack of empathy for new learners can make it incredibly difficult to teach concepts to those who don't have as much knowledge as you may have.

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkmNXy7er84 for a great video by 3blue1brown on this topic.

How does Google works internally between teams on this kind of issues? For instance, do you work with people developing Google apps sometimes? Because it seems that they've gotten slower and slower as time goes: for instance, if YouTube was a porn tube, it will be dead already because it's much much slower than the competition.

Will web.dev finally do what they preach and fix Google's own websites before penalising everyone else?

> Now, if you just dumped your other ad networks and ran everything through us, I bet it would be load much faster and that badge might magically disappear...

My experience with everything google has touched lately suggest that this wouldn't improve speed any. Gmail and youtube make continental drift look speedy and even the search page takes 1.4MB and takes over a second to load for me (maybe corporate network issue), that's approaching the size of doom to display a dozen links.

Google doesn't have any moral authority when it comes to bloat.

Edit - for reference HN takes about the same time to load, but that has to cross the pacific ocean whereas google supposedly has local data centers.

There's a big difference between "done loading" and "appears to be done loading". Google is reportedly very cautious about the latter, and pulls some hijinks to appear faster than it is. Frankly, I'd be happier if more sites paid a similar level of attention.

That said, if your search page takes over a second, you're right, it might be an issue with your network.

I think the point being made is that it's no longer actually about the speed, it's about the 'badge of shame'. The analogy being used is accurate, in that 'protection money' isn't, and was never, about protection.

The only PC where I saw Gmail being fast was a Ryzen 9 3900x build, I suspect that if Google devs were given shittier PCs they'd build faster products that would appeal more to the average user.

I run a Core i5-2500K from 2011 and Gmail runs just fine. Far better than Thunderbird or Outlook ever did, but it does take a lot of memory.

I have a Google-issued corporate workstation with 64 GB of RAM and 12 cores. Gmail is really really slow. Like so slow that I if I have to refresh it I'll go get coffee. But I'm on Firefox, and so "I Am Not The User" and all that.

IMO the best way to use Gmail is to open and pin it, only load once a day. It seems optimised for this use case.

Part of the problem is that they place high importance on the first contentful paint (aka FCP) above all else. They're not very much looking at how it performs overall, mostly just how long it takes for a user to see the first bit of content. If that were a bit of text that said "loading" with a spinner that goes for a minute or two, they may consider that fast.

This section shows how Lighthouse calculates your overall Performance score: https://web.dev/performance-scoring/#lighthouse-6

(Note that the table gets cut off on narrow mobile screens... I’ll file a bug)

FCP is 20% of the score. The other metrics capture different milestones in the loading experience. For example Total Blocking Time is intended to bring awareness to sites that may look complete but can’t respond to user input (because the main thread is busy running JS).

The metrics overview that we just launched provides more detail about how our metrics were designed to capture the end-to-end loading experience (or at least that’s what we’re working towards): https://web.dev/user-centric-performance-metrics/

So in the case of your site-that-just-loads-a-spinner example, yes it might have a good FCP time, but it’s LCP time probably wouldn’t be that good, and therefore the overall Performance score would be mediocre.

Long story short, I don’t think it’s as easy to game a good Performance score as you might think

Disclosure: I work on web.dev

> that has to cross the pacific ocean whereas google supposedly has local data centers

HN is behind Cloudflare, and so also has local DCs

I think you misspelled AMP.

their site is pure hidden text spam (aka paywall) and they still give them views. i don't know why you'd say that

They would be.... an extremely unwise website to target with that kind of extortion.

Oh, definitely don't start with NYT. Come back to them once there's little other choice.

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