1066?
Lucky for us that Britain and France didn't get along or the US War of Independence would not have succeeded.
Lucky for us that Britain and France didn't get along or the US War of Independence would not have succeeded.
Were a lot of really good things caused by the independence of the US? Just off hand, it seems like slavery likely would have ended much sooner and the rise of fascism in Europe could have been greatly abated with a non-independent US. Of course, it's impossible to know what would have been, but it makes me wonder.
The net result was the rapid expansion westward from 1790 through the 1800s. This expansion and development of the lands, forests and mines was aided by rapid immigration from many countries in Europe, not just the British Isles. As a British Colony, the US would not have been as available to other Europeans, and development would have been slower.
Possibly slavery would have ended more quickly, but Britain also supported the South, rather than the North. The South's cotton fed the British textile factories. After the Civil War, Britain went on to develop cotton plantations in Egypt as a replacement source.
Do you have a source for this? My understanding is that in 1775, the British colonies of America were the fastest growing and most populous of the British empire. So if the war happened, why would this not continue to be the case?
It would be more similar to a rebellion of the British governors/Raj in India against the Crown, which very plausibly would have led to even worse and more prolonged abuse of the native people in India.
Ah yes, all of Europe occupied by fascists and a war with 60 million dead, nothing to worry about.
Do you also consider the black plague "a minor public health issue, promptly addressed?"
First off, British America would have never had the same amount of territory that the US ultimately had; Napoleon would have never sold the Louisiana territory to Great Britain, the Southwest would still be part of Mexico, and at best the Pacific Northwest would have been part of Canada. British America would basically stop at the Appalachians, with Louisiana probably reverting back to the Spanish and becoming either part of a greater Mexico or existing as its own quasi-post-colonial dominion. So while America could be the breadbasket of the Allies in our timeline, that would have been impossible without American independence.
Secondly, Britain would have never allowed America to industrialize to the degree that we did, because they wouldn't want that kind of competition for their domestic industry. So not only are we no longer the breadbasket of democracy, but we're not even the arsenal of democracy anymore.
Thirdly, you're looking at a scenario where in the First World War, Americans would be drafted and shipped overseas to die pointlessly in the trenches or in failed offensives like Gallipoli. And you think this would make Americans more likely to accept future British demands to be drafted and sent overseas to die in another pointless European war? Since in this scenario British America never even reaches the West Coast, there's absolutely no chance of a Pearl Harbor, either, meaning Americans have absolutely no stake in the Second World War.
In other words, British America would be a much weaker country than the United States, with less land, fewer natural resources, less industrialization, less manpower, and much less will to fight. They would have been available two years earlier, but Britain and France just sort of sat around doing fuck-all between September 1939 and May 1940 anyway, and it's not clear that the addition of a small number of Americans to the BEF would have saved France. And it's even worse than that. Without the United States the Pacific theatre would collapse, with Japan likely holding uncontested access to the natural resources of the region and probably even capable of successfully invading Australia. In real life, Britain basically gave up on everything east of Burma. It was the United States who had the resources to engage the Japanese at Guadalcanal, effectively checking their advance and making their position in New Guinea untenable. In such a scenario, Japan would likely be able to more effectively project naval power into the Indian Ocean and concentrate their forces on the China-Burma-India theatre.
Finally, compared to the rise of communism in Europe, fascism was abated pretty decisively, with probably fewer overall deaths and in a much shorter period of time.
More to the point if George III had wanted to recover the lost colonies as much as he was anti catholic - the war of 1812 might well gone very differently.
> The expanded French fleet, in combination with the Spanish, outnumbered the British one and was able to temporarily gain sufficient command of the Atlantic to prevent Lord Cornwallis and a large British army, besieged by George Washington and 5,800 French regulars at Yorktown on the Chesapeake Bay in 1781, from being evacuated or reinforced by sea, forcing Cornwallis to surrender. This was the decisive battle of the war that ended with the Peace of Paris in 1783. Washington himself handsomely acknowledged the significance of the French contribution in a letter to Admiral De Grasse in which he said, “You will have observed that whatever efforts are made by the land armies, the navy must have the casting vote in the present contest” (Lloyd 1965, p. 174). The Canadian historian W. J. Eccles (1987, p. 153) is even more explicit: “French initiative, French tactics, French ships, French guns and men achieved that unexpected and decisive victory. The Americans could not have done it on their own.”
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> The war also had very severe consequences for France’s much more disorderly fiscal system, where the finance minister Calonne and his predecessor Necker together borrowed over 900 million livres in the decade from 1777 to 1787 (Doyle 1988, pp. 43– 52). The situation was so bad that Calonne informed Louis XVI that no fiscal remedies could be found without a complete overhaul of the society and administrative system of the ancien régime, leading to the summoning of the Estates-General in 1789 and the outbreak of the French Revolution.
Power and Plenty, Ronald Findlay and Kevin H. O’Rourke
Navies are big, expensive things to build and maintain, and as such, they are usually designed and planned around various assumptions of potential future war scenarios. Were Britain and France friendly, or even in a union such as the Angevin Empire, their resulting navy would likely be much smaller than the combined sizes of their historical navy, since it would be pointless to maintain a navy of that size if no feasible set of combatants could challenge it.
It is also worth pointing out that large countries that manage to steamroll their opposition and establish an unparalleled hegemony tend to result in the creation of other countries that can challenge their ascendancy: the Mongol Empire creating the Russian Empire in this way is perhaps the best example.
Also, the original question was specific - was France the only credible major power to assist US? It is silly to answer it by speculating backwards, about events that may or may not have happened centuries prior to it.