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Comment by openstep | Hacker News Reader

American here living in the Netherlands for the past seven years.

The one thing I've noticed about folks taking these burnout sessions is that some absolutely take advantage of the system. Multiple people have told me firsthand that they're on burnout just because they want to be. Not because they're burned out. It goes so far that they lie during the mandatory therapy session provided by their employer in order to stay on burnout. Feels a bit unfair for the companies that have to buy burnout insurance.

Having said that, I think it's a great benefit of working for a Dutch company. Assuming you really have a burnout! If you don't have a burnout but you don't want to work so much then go 4 days a week. This is super common in the Netherlands.

Anyway, Dutch society in general really care about the well-being of their people. I suppose a few people taking advantage of the system is just the cost of living.

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I mean, what is “burnout” other than not wanting to work?

Maybe they’re just saying that to you because they assume (as an expat) that you don’t share their value system?

oh wow. i think burnout is more complicated than “i don’t want to work”. way more complicated.

But someone who is burned out might save face by saying that it's just that 'I don't want to work'

In what culture is that saving face?

A culture that punishes weakness, which seems to apply to most that I can think of.

Laziness isn't seen as a weakness?

> I mean, what is “burnout” other than not wanting to work?

"Not wanting" to work is an attempt to weaken the position of the person who suffers from burnout, as it puts the responsibility of the problem solely on them which is inaccurate at best, and dishonest at worst.

Quoting Wikipedia:

> According to the World Health Organization (WHO), occupational burnout is a syndrome (group of symptoms that co-occur) linked to long-term, unresolved, work-related stress. [1]

> According to the current WHO classification (ICD-11), burnout can arise from unsuccessful management of chronic work-related stress, resulting in an occupational syndrome characterised such symptoms as "feelings of energy depletion or exhaustion; increased mental distance from one’s job, or feelings of negativism or cynicism related to one's job; and reduced professional efficacy." [1]

(Notice the URL's name is occupational burnout. There are other forms of burnout.)

I take it you're able to imagine that such is not always the sole responsibility of the employee but could also be co employees, work environment, management, employer, pressure, family, things such as breaking the law or "working around the law" while conscience takes its toll?

From my experience, I can say I've observed there are people who have not much clue about diseases such as burnout or depression or a disability such as autism unless they lived it themselves or put substantive effort (which takes a considerable amount of time and energy) into the issue (an example of such would be, thankfully, a doctor).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_burnout

> I mean, what is “burnout” other than not wanting to work?

Burnout is more like desperately wanting to be able to work but a variety of things ruining your sleep, your concentration, your memory, and your health so that you can't.

A reason I support things like that is, in part, the same reason Congress sanctioned OT above 40 hours of work. It incentivizes hiring more people.

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