Comment by brenden2 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by brenden2 | Hacker News Reader

I would love to see more bollards deployed in Manhattan to protect pedestrians. Every day I see drivers making dangerous moves, running red lights, and intimidating people in crosswalks etc. There's one particular spot right in front of my apartment where I see people run the red light constantly, but the NYPD does nothing. Across the US, pedestrian and cyclist deaths are on the rise[1][2].

I've always thought it might be worth using retractable bollards in busy intersections to protect people from dangerous drivers, or to stop those who simply do not respect pedestrians. Traffic enforcement in NYC seems weak at best, and the NYPD appears to favour drivers over pedestrians and cyclists. Their enforcement activities involve ticketing delivery drivers (who have literally killed nobody ever) instead of keeping dangerous drivers off the roads.

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/07/traffic-deat...

[2]: https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news/pedestrian-deaths-at-hi...

New York is a special case. Only city I have ever driven in where a police officer actively told me to drive into a crowded crosswalk because that was the only way you would ever get to take a left turn.

Bangalore makes New York look like Stockholm.

Eh, that happens in London too. Kings' Cross station comes to mind. The way to make progress is to slowly drive into the pedestrians.

So it goes.

It is an interesting idea, but retractable barriers aren't super reliable, get hit semi-frequently, and you'd need to design additional tools to assist emergency vehicles.

Red light cameras could likely solve the situation with no physical or mechanical considerations.

Red light cameras don't increase safety [1]. They may shift some of the injuries from pedestrians to drivers, but overall there's no benefit.

[1] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3078079

I didn't see it mentioned, but I wonder if the study also accounts for the practice of reducing yellow light duration to increase revenue from red light cameras as a means of generating more revenue.

https://www.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-sho...

That was my first thought. Chicago's red light program is rather infamous, and, as a pedestrian, I do feel less safe at the intersections that had them installed. The lights change so fast that a motorists who presumably don't realize how ridiculously short the timing on Chicago traffic lights can be often sail through the intersection a good 1-2 seconds after the lights have signaled for crossing traffic - both vehicles and pedestrians - to proceed.

IMO, the best system is the one they have in Montréal. The traffic lights work a bit differently from the rest of North America in several ways, but one is special "vertical green bar" lights indicating that you're only allowed to go straight. No turns allowed until the regular green lamp illuminates. This does a pretty effective job of encouraging motorists to wait for pedestrians. Québec drivers are somewhat famously aggressive, but I still felt safer as a pedestrian in Montréal than in any other North American city I've visited.

I've seen green up arrows (to mean the same thing) plenty in the west suburbs of Chicago.

Cameras can cause abrupt breaking and more collisions. Maybe if paired with gradual light transitions and barriers they could be a net benefit.

That sounds like short light transitions, not cameras.

NYC is already stuffed with red light cameras as well as cameras that automatically give you speeding tickets.

Delivery drivers make traffic conditions dangerous by forcing cyclists out into the road at every block and limiting visibility curbside.

Raised intersections have also been found to be effective in these situations

Just a week ago, NYC approved a plan to revamp streets for bikes, pedestrians, and buses:

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/NYC-City-Council-to-Vo...

Personal cars just need to be banned in Manhattan already.

Similarly, I wish there was a bollard design that could keep bicyclists off of sidewalks and out of crosswalks without impeding the disabled.

Give them a safe place to ride and this solves itself.

I used to imagine that might be so, but when walking I regularly face bicyclists riding at full speed down a narrow sidewalk even though there is a parallel bike lane on a safe and fairly deserted street not two meters away.

In any case, the tribulations of bicyclists is not a sufficient reason for them to endanger pedestrians. When I ride, I keep it in the street. It's the right thing to do.

I agree that riding in the road is the right thing to do from a safety standpoint for everyone involved. Cyclists are much more likely to be hit by cars when riding on the sidewalks, and are probably more likely to injure pedestrians as well.

Since you seem to ride, is it possible there's something unsafe about the particular cycle paths you're referencing?

> Cyclists are much more likely to be hit by cars when riding on the sidewalks,

Is this actually true? I haven't seen data one way or the other, so I'd be interested to know. I can see reasons why it could go either way.

It's a big claim, and potentially misleading even if technically true. There could plausibly be a higher accident rate, but lower serious injury and fatality rates. (Due to lower-speed collisions, and reduced likelihood of being knocked into other traffic.)

A quick google found this page [http://www.victoriawalks.org.au/news/1637] created by a walking lobby group, which looks like an attempt to present the strongest case against footpath cycling, but still leaves all the big questions open.

Sidewalks often intersect car trajectories, either due to driveways or street crossings. Pedestrians are relatively easy for drivers to see because they move slowly. Bicycles on the other hand can be moving quite quickly and often believe (often correctly) that they have the right of way. Combine that with poor visibility, typical lack of bicycle lights/reflectors/etc, and unpredictable behavior, and you have a recipe for disaster.

That’s true, but not unique to sidewalks. Much of the same arguments likely apply to bike lanes.

My current city gets awards for having some of the best bicycling infrastructure in the US. At first glance, it seems like bicycle heaven.

But after having walked/bicycled/driven here for a few years, one realizes that the reality is different. The novel and specialized bike lanes/laws/signage are quite confusing to drivers, and confusion is the enemy of safety. As an example, in various places, drivers turning must yield to bicyclists several car lengths behind them, potentially on their right or their left. All of this while simultaneously yielding to bikes/cars/peds that may be approaching from the other three directions. This is difficult to pull off, even for a safety freak like me.

I felt much safer riding my bike (and walking and driving) in Los Angeles. There's far less infra, but the situation was simple for all to understand. Wide shoulders (in my area) seemed to make a big difference, and sidewalks that were mostly bike-unrideable seemed to help.

I found that most of the people doing this are not daily cyclists but the "weekend warriors" or "fair-weather" cyclists. As a cyclist, I've had a lot of close calls with people who simply don't know what the fuck they're doing and it's obvious. Things like:

1. In an urban area, you can't go against traffic but they think it's "safer," much like driving an SUV must be "safer."

2. My personal "favorite," the issue you brought up, people riding on the sidewalk... it's safer to ride in the street for everyone. Riding on the sidewalk endangers pedestrians, yourself, and cars since they won't see at all you when they're turning... but people still do it because it "feels safer."

Part of the problem is I think we probably have zero efforts to inform the public how to ride safely... I imagine most people think a helmet is the only thing they'll need: "Oh shit, beebs, I got my HELLMET and spandex on let's ride til we die."

In SF I have even seen motorcycles on the sidewalk. Not scooters, full-sized bikes. There is no technical cure for a social ill.

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