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Comment by holografix | Hacker News Reader

No, you guys need to quit the platitudes.

You need to do something about your “fixed” meritocratic society where your future is largely determined by your parents’ wealth.

You need tax reform, healthcare, cheaper education. I had a discussion with an American friend recently, he offered that the American society has produced marvels such as Google and Facebook and Tesla and countless others, fair point.

Can you imagine a new social media today competing with Facebook? A new search engine? Wanna open a retail online store? AWS will eat you alive.

I grew up thinking America was the greatest country on earth, truly. You know who also had some absolutely amazing achievements? The Egyptian pharaohs.

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Non American here. They seem to be the greatest country on earth. They have a big problem with the gap between the rich and the poor but have huge upward mobility.

The education system is too expensive and a bit of a scam but does that cause the problems people think it does. Can you make it in the US without a degree?

Social mobility in the USA is actually much lower than in other developed countries.

It's not the best in the USA but I understand it's not terrible. https://www.oecd.org/centrodemexico/medios/44582910.pdf

It's also incredibly complex so perhaps it was a silly thing for me to comment on as I don't think it's that easy to define or measure.

upward mobility doesn't scale well. USA is doing epic for the scale on the upward mobility. If you were born here or get to become a citizen you've won a lottery compared to the bottom 50% of the world. To claim much worse and to be a US citizen is to say you've 'earned winning the lottery' .. Not to build up the US or put down any other country just the way it is imo

They do measure it though, and the best measurements show that the USA does not compare favourably to other developed nations at all.

I think the line commentators tend to use is “the American Dream is alive and well, in Denmark”

Social mobility is basically invariant across societies, with a heritability of about 0.7 according to Gregory Clark’s research (A Farewell to Alms, The Son Also Rises, the upcoming For Whom the Bell Curve Tolls). The difference is explained by the number of generations covered.

> Can you make it in the US without a degree?

Absolutely.

* This being HN, I should point you can make it in IT/software without a degree though you must start at the low-end and climb from there.

* Skilled blue collar work has its limits but provides an accessible career more than capable of supporting a family.

* Military service has its drawbacks but has quite cushy benefits.

* For the ambitious, service-based small businesses are easier than ever.

While it's possible to make it in the US without a degree, I'd recommend more of a middle ground of a 2 or 4-year degree from a local college or state school.

Americais and always has been fantastic place if you're part of the upper 20% and dog shit for everyone else. We just have great propaganda.

I totally disagree. I was raised in a family of 8 kids, we didn't have any money. All my siblings and friends have had a good shot at the American dream, most of us have done quite well.

I've also lived in several different states. Haven't seen anything even close to 80% dog crap. Not even close.

I mean, imagine telling that to people living in poor countries.

Please travel or read about the world to get some perspective.

Seriously, if you were born in a country like the U.S. in modern times, you won the birth lottery.

>Seriously, if you were born in a country like the U.S. in modern times, you won the birth lottery.

Agreed. The lottery won is for starting position in a game where participation is not choosen and objective you choose determines position ranking.

Nah. Winning the lottery is being born in a country with free health care and education. Being born in the US is OK at best.

The Thirteen Colonies were the richest group of states under the British and as the US grew it continued to be land rich and labour poor. Americans were noticeably taller than Europeans until week after WWII. The rest of the world has caught up some but the US is without a doubt in the top ten by GDP per capita though competing with city states and what would be individual states there. Measured by average individual consumption it’s probably number 1. The US may not be a good place to be in the bottom 10%, possibly even the bottom 20% but by standards of living for normal people nowhere else compares.

> The US may not be a good place to be in the bottom 10%, possibly even the bottom 20% but by standards of living for normal people nowhere else compares.

Arguably, not even the bottom 50%. Even a minor medical issue can tank middle-class families.

OTOH, you're in the top 30% of the bell curve there is nowhere else better than the US.

> No, you guys need to quit the platitudes.

Uh-huh

> You need to do something about your “fixed” meritocratic society where your future is largely determined by your parents’ wealth.

> You need tax reform, healthcare, cheaper education.

Please continue your nuanced argument with a straw-man.

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