Can You Overdose on Happiness?
nautil.us
nautil.us
I eventually settled on two 'states'. A 'centered' state and a 'joyful' one. Any time I noticed myself outside of one of the two states, I performed the quick ritual to bring myself back to it.
After a few days of practice, I found myself shockingly good at performing quick, directed mood shifts, in any situation I found myself in. I settled into a routine that lasted a few weeks.
It didn't suck, I never 'overdosed'. It was every bit as cool as you can imagine it being.
However over time I lost the desire to keep it up. Eventually I realized that, in the end, being able to relate to others requires a certain amount of empathy, and being blissed-out all the time made it really difficult to do that.
It might get easier if everyone around me also could stay centered or joyful, but if I want deep fulfilling relationships with others, being able to feel what they feel and not what I want to feel is important.
This is ultimately what makes addiction so caustic to relationships IMO. Your mood stops moving and flexing with your social environs. It's a feedback loop that closes you off from those that sustain you and you lean heavier on the substance.
I was living in a state of bliss I could turn up and down for years. I could turn it up so high I'd pass out from it.
After years of this, something happened and I stopped being able to feel bliss at all. It was like a part of my neurology had been fried. I assumed it was something I had done so I turned to suttas to try to figure out what was up, assuming it was a meditation problem. I learned Buddhism, I solved my psychological problems, even ended suffering, but at the end of the day the bliss was gone never to come back.
Doctors call it depression, but I'm optimistic and enjoy life. They may have never bumped into anyone like me before.
At the end of the day I'm grateful for the experiences I've had, but if you live high as a kite for years, you can OD on it. I imagine someone who ODs on a benzo or meth might have a similar experience.
The technique isn't particularly hard to develop. I used hand gestures. Hold your hands in the gesture and focus on the desired mood. Best done initially when you are only slightly 'off' from the desired mood. Rinse and repeat until you can do it more readily and in situations that are further away from the desired one.
The hard part is in remembering to do it, and in maintaining the patience to keep at it. If I hadn't already had years of meditation experience by the time I came up with this idea, I don't think I would have been able to follow through.
I used the teachings of George Gurdjieff to help me reach a place where I could rely on my ability to remember such things at the time in which I need to remember them. PDF link follows, however not the one I used. I personally read the first few chapters of his first book, Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, which is an impossibly dense read that communicates a stupidly simple message.
OP and proverbialbunny talk about negative aspects that you should be aware of (especially because it sounds like some of you reach out to this with great desire). Messing with the void without proper understanding is dangerous.
[1]: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vbaedd/meditation-is-a-po...
Maybe the problem is that the current common understanding of Buddhist enlightenment is incorrect: it has been sold as a panacea for everyone, including "householders", that we can just drop into our lives and continue on our former paths with the added bonus of the end of suffering.
That's the reason I gave this warning: Most people don't want enlightenment, they just want a "life hack" ("change your mood to calmness and joy with these 5 simple steps"). I don't see a problem with this, but I see the possibility of enduring pain in these people. The path to enlightenment is a commitment only a few are willing to make - it is the most painful of all ways, but it's also the only one (for some - only those have a chance of bearing the pain). well, you know, that's just like, my opinion, man.
The search ends when the seeker stops to seek. And realizes that he did nothing else, than to spin in circles.
In my case, the search did not stop, the circles just found new dimension.
The rest of your truth is perfectly truthful. :-)
Probably. However I would guess if the negative effects are chronic then there is something wrong with the practice.
>Isn't the Buddhist path supposed to lead to the end of aversion _and_ craving (or desire or attachment)?
Yes, the Buddhist path[1] is supposed to lead to the end of suffering and rebirth. Clinging and craving produces karma which leads to rebirth. Stopping karma will lead to the cessation of suffering or nirvana.
>it has been sold as a panacea for everyone, including "householders", that we can just drop into our lives and continue on our former paths with the added bonus of the end of suffering.
No, it is not possible[2] for a householder to attain enlightenment. As a householder you have responsibilities (house, family, work) which inherently leads to clinging. However as a householder you can improve your chances at a good rebirth through merit (good karma). The best a householder can attain is stream entry. Monastics offload the dirty work of human survival (food, protection, etc) to householders in return for merit (virtuous cycle). You have to don the robes to cross the stream.
[1] The Noble Eightfold Path
[2] In traditional Buddhism
Maybe 'the practice' (as practiced by people in the Vice article) is incomplete, in the sense of lacking a better understanding of things to expect, companion meditators, ethical guidelines (Sila), and a more experienced teacher to help one understand what one is going through mentally.
> No, it is not possible for a householder to attain enlightenment.
I think this is incorrect. The Pali Canon mentions at least a few lay Arahants and many lay once-returners and non-returners (so beyond the stage of stream-entry). [1]
I should mention that I'm not Buddhist and don't really believe in rebirth, karma, enlightenment literally. However I do believe at least karma and enlightenment can be stripped down to psychological processes and states, and I don't see a reason why a dedicated and talented householder can't achieve the psychological equivalent of enlightenment.
I stand corrected. I should have limited my point to say that nirvana is out of reach for householders.
>I should mention that I'm not Buddhist ...
Same here. I am personally not into the unsubstantiated ideas in Buddhism (like rebirth, supernatural, etc). I just think much of the Buddhist philosophy is interesting and useful.
Thanks! :)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/your-personal-renais...
> I guess I got a happy ending, but every happy ending has the day after the happy ending, right? And the day after that. So the wedding was so much fun. It was the happiest day of my life. But, you know, what does that say about all the days I have left?
I've always liked that quote, because it is something that gets a bit glossed over in books and movies, but is important; the first derivative of happiness after something amazing is almost invariably negative.
Sure, and maybe that mentality works for you, but I feel like a lot of people are more sensitive to differentials than actual quality-of-life.
For example, if I get a big raise at work, then that's great; I will probably be happy for awhile, and after that, I'll probably equalize to more or less the level of happiness I was before. Imagine that I then lose that raise, going back to the same salary that I started with. I would probably be pretty depressed over that, despite the fact that I wouldn't, in practice, be any worse than how I started.
I'm not saying it's rational, I'm just saying that's how I (and I think a lot of people) would react.
And if you keep that process in mind and maintain perspective, you can flatten both bursts of happiness and bouts of depression. Paradoxically, this might actually raise your settled level of happiness.
I'm really not sure what to think.
"Man’s ultimate happiness consists in the contemplation of truth, for this operation is specific to man and is shared with no other animals. Also it is not directed to any other end since the contemplation of truth is sought for its own sake. In addition, in this operation man is united to higher beings (substances) since this is the only human operation that is carried out both by God and by the separate substances (angels). (Summa Contra Gentiles, book 3, chapter 37)
and
It is impossible for any created good to constitute man’s happiness. For happiness is that perfect good which entirely satisfies one’s desire; otherwise it would not be the ultimate end, if something yet remained to be desired. Now the object of the will, i.e., of man’s desire, is what is universally good; just as the object of the intellect is what is universally true. Hence it is evident that nothing can satisfy man’s will, except what is universally good. This is to be found, not in any creature, but in God alone, because every creature has only participated goodness. Therefore, God alone can satisfy the will of man, according to the words of the Psalms (102:5): “Who alone satisfies your desire with good things.” Therefore, God alone constitutes man’s happiness.” (Summa Theologica Part 2. Q.1. Article 8)
Basically: who gets happier when they get a gift? Someone who doesn't get gifts a lot, or someone who's always getting gifts?
My Yoga teacher used to say that it's useless to tell someone to relax, it's like telling them to not think of a pink elephant.
> What an incredibly flawed piece; sensational, unscientific and condescending to patients suffering from depression. All decorated with opinions of a very controversial scientist: http://alison-bass.blogspot.com/2011/05/helen-mayberg-case-s...
OD'ing in sense of "my happy chemicals are depleted so now I need to recover a bit", suuuure :)
In some ways I was a bit jealous of how he never seemed to let things get to him. But on the other hand, he would let certain aspects of his life fall apart in ways that seemed to me his perpetual good humor perhaps didn't allow him to address. If he had felt a bit more discomfort I think he would have taken a different path from time to time and ultimately wound up in a better place overall.
Like if you knew that no job or money you made would ever lead to any fulfillment of any kind, and you would be equally happy without the job / money, would you still do it, just because its a "better situation" (how we define better is again tricky here)...
This is extreme, but there's an old zen koan about a teacher who tells his servant to leave him alone while he drinks tea, as his house burns down. He then walks back to see it burned down, and no one can understand why he did that, and he says something like "I was enjoying my tea". The house was as meaningless as if someone had said "if you don't come quick a leaf will blow off your patio" -- totally meaningless and of no impact to your present mood.
"Children play a part, too. A recent working paper published by NBER finds that children increase the happiness of European parents, especially for the first ten years. Parents become less happy, however, if having children causes them to encounter financial difficulties. It follows, then, that happiness bounces back for financially-stretched parents once those children become financially independent, but decreases for those parents that enjoyed their children in financial comfort."
Children = Happiness - Money
...I knew it.
I suspect households with more than 2 adults the equation changes significantly. My experience is every child is a pleasure for 2 hours, no matter how badly they are misbehaving. So a household with enough adults to hand off the children may be able to maximize some kind of child additive happiness, though now you have to deal with added adult drama...
But also frustrated and tired.
But now that we hit 4 months, it's mostly happy and rarely tired and frustrated.
But there are so many obvious questions unanswered: I incrementing from one volt to another had significant mood alteration, why didn't the doctor improve granulairy,why didn't they tried e.g
If changing from one volt to another has such a big impact on mood alteration, why couldn't they try floats ? (e.g 3.265 volts) Also the happiness benchmarcking should be much more rigorous (we're talking about permanently altering a human mood behavior) e.g how much is increased or decreased the response to stimulis such as consuming music, arts, orgasms, or laugh ability. How much does this affect social behavior, ability to focus, working memory, creativity, etc. Is the alteration only changing baseline well being or does it affect the propensity of having mood spikes (high low, high up). I'm just a random guy on the internet,the scientists should have measured all of this.
Other obvious things: The field should be massively be financed by state research. The voltage should be dynamic in real time and changeable though a smartphone application. Philosophers and data scientists should make consensus on optimal strategies (setting a right voltage for a right situation)
Also, the stimulation only affect one brain region, I expect that the recompense system is far more complex and thus we should have as many electrodes as there are concerned brain regions. Indeed, each with differing voltages.
Deep brain stimulation seems to be the successor of a widely used paradigmatic technology: Psychotrophs. Cannabis mostly have the structure of dopamin and thus can pass the blood brain barrier and stick to dopamin receptors. Here hapiness is controlled chemically not electrically. So can the recompense system be totally controlled electrically or only a subset of moods states/substates can be controlled electrically?
Also, does the stimulation inherit some downsides of cannabis?
Bonus: Instead of having a dynamically changing voltages in real time but in a continous manner, would it be useful to make rapid non continous volts switching having a "rhythm" like a music? Could we create new fine grained feelings on demand?
Sometimes YouTube shows me videos of natural disasters (I have a strong interest in the extremes of physics, weather, nature, etc. generally) and some of those videos feature widespread human suffering on display. When I see these videos, I remember that my life is actually pretty great despite the minor nuisances that may have me feeling ticked off that day. Couldn't seeing homelessness around you could remind you how lucky you are that you don't suffer from the conditions that lead to homelessness?
Can't most people to some extent do that?
https://www.myrighttime.com/concussions-depression
https://msktc.org/tbi/factsheets/depression-after-traumatic-...
https://www.brainline.org/article/depression-after-brain-inj...
http://healthland.time.com/2013/01/17/study-reveals-how-conc...
In my case, I was a rambunctious kid who bumped his noggin dozens of times and I always wondered if that had an effect on my mood. I've struggled with depression off and on since my late teens, although I think that most of it was environmental. It can be difficult sometimes as creative people to find satisfaction in the workaday world when it's so far removed from the life of invention and fulfillment that we might imagine for ourselves.
The interesting thing about concussion is that it doesn't always show up on brain scans because it can be microscopic tears in the white matter connecting different regions, rather than acute damage to a specific area. So maybe everything is working, but there is a delay or diminishment in inner monolog that makes everything feel like a struggle or seem like tasks require additional motivation that is difficult to maintain.
It could manifest differently for everyone though, and the damage may or may not be permanent. I think that some of the trouble comes because we might rewire ourselves to cope with temporary damage, and then find ourselves caught in dysfunctional habits after the brain repairs itself via neuroplasticity. Similar things happen in the body with referred pain, where nerves report pain months or years after a muscle strain heals, for example. I’ve been experimenting with a TENS machine and after just 3 half-hour sessions, the pain in one of my shoulder blades is about 1/3 less than before.
I also think there might be a connection with the limbic system, or whichever centers connect thought with external action. I’ve noticed that I can brainstorm like no tomorrow, or perform physical tasks like lifting weights, but combining the two to adapt physically under changing mental requirements and do things like home improvement projects can be taxing sometimes. The end result being that I’m not quite the self-motivator I once was, because it’s easier to procrastinate reading/writing about my interests or take direct orders from a boss than start my own project.
So I’ve been experimenting with separating my goals and performing them temporally, using a to-do list. Maybe list what to do in the morning, then perform the steps in the afternoon or the next day. The idea being that any of us can write an outline of how to achieve our dreams, hopefully incorporating mindfulness meditation practices (aka The Secret), then diligently follow those steps by reporting to ourselves as our own boss and achieve some level of spiritual independence and satisfaction in our lives.
Some keywords that helped me research this are SSRI, SNRI and adult crawling. YMMV though as I’m a bit of a mind hacker (certainly not a doctor) and have never been on antidepressants.