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Comment by MereInterest | Hacker News Reader

I've been interested in tracking sleep/exercise/heart rate more closely, but have yet to find a manufacturer that takes privacy seriously. Whatever device I have should transfer data only to computers that are under my control. No matter how pure the intentions of the current maintainers of centralized databases, acquisitions can lead to those databases being in unscrupulous hands.

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I'm the same. I use a Contec CMS50I purchased new on ebay as a sleep data logger. I use SleepyHead software, however I think even the windows software that comes with it doesn't require a network connection. It is a pulse oximeter that tracks SpO2, pulse rate, and perfusion index. I think they are primarily sold as a low cost option for hospitals. The data format was reverse engineered not provided by the company and while I haven't compared directly I think there might be some debouncing that should be applied in some cases involving movement of the sensor (possibly their software doesn't do anything about that either). I've used it overnight maybe 30ish times and I'm not sure it will last all that long, although the blue line the display acquired at one point went away after a while. I did find that it is a good idea to wipe with rubbing alcohol each time you use it as the manual suggests. I wish there were more options.

> have yet to find a manufacturer that takes privacy seriously

What's wrong with Apple then?

You need an iPhone. The square design might not appeal to everyone

That wasn't the point of the original comment at all, this is your personal projection.

Whatever device I have should transfer data only to computers that are under my control.

It might be possible to keep the data local, but it is likely to be neither easy, nor easy to NOT end up accidentally linking it to iCloud. Where I personally don't have a problem with those data living on Apple's servers, parent obviously does.

I'm under the impression that health data is not uploaded to iCloud or backed up by iCloud backup. What makes you think otherwise?

From https://www.apple.com/ios/health/

> Your health data stays up to date across all your devices automatically using iCloud, where it is encrypted while in transit and at rest. Apps that access HealthKit are required to have a privacy policy, so be sure to review these policies before providing apps with access to your health and fitness data.

That it is uploaded and capable of being shared with apps implies that Apple both has access to it and is capable of decrypting it. I also have a wider definition of "health data", and would include sleep patterns, heart rate, and exercise rate under it.

I think all the decryption happens on the phone, so Apple can't actually see your iCloud data.

I would be very surprised if that were true. Apple needs to be able to help users reset passwords and recover data. And it would be a complicated key management situation when adding or removing devices.

It is indeed true (and complicated). There have been well-publicized cases of users who have been permanently locked out of their account, because they lost all their trusted devices and also their recovery key.

Well, I am very surprised, thanks for the info :)

That is for iOS and not the watchOS. All health data is stored on the device and Apple does not have access to it.

It doesn't even have the means to decrypt it.

They can't decrypt the health data. They can decrypt most icloud categories, but a few are only exempt.

You can also shut off icloud backup for health.

https://support.apple.com/en-il/HT209519

-------- [forgive me, for the life of me I don't easily know how to format lists on HN or even put things on newlines without double spacing]

"These features and their data are transmitted and stored in iCloud using end-to-end encryption:

Home data Health data (requires iOS 12 or later) iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords) Payment information Quicktype Keyboard learned vocabulary (requires iOS 11 or later) Screen Time Siri information Wi-Fi passwords"

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

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Imessages are also end to end encrypted. However, if you use icloud backup, they can be decrypted as the keys are backed up.

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