An USB plug that goes both ways | Hacker News Reader

An USB plug that goes both ways

yankodesign.com

265 pointshernan7132 comments

Well, after 10+ years of using USB widgets of every shape, size, and color - I just discovered from reading the article that the USB symbol is always on the top side. So, I certainly got my value out of HN today. :-)

Except when the device makers mount them vertically or upside down.

Exactment.

Also, people damage the heads and/or the jack by trying to insert them the wrong way? Either the plug slides in gently, or it doesn't budge.

What? You didn't notice the mark clearly embossed in black plastic on the black plastic background while holding it in the illuminated space between the back of your computer and the wall?

Or maybe yours doesn't have a mark at all like the mouse I'm using now. Or maybe it has one mark on one side and a slightly different mark on the other.

Who came up with this stupid idea anyway of making a plug that looks and feels to the fingers completely symmetrical externally yet is definitely oriented in its insertion? Why are we still using it?

I went to buy a USB cable for charging something the other day. It seems I bought a micro instead of a mini USB end, or vice versa.

Really guys. What we needed was a smaller RJ45 without the plastic tab thingy that breaks off. HDMI isn't doing nearly so bad.

Come on, it's right there in section 6.5.1 of the specification which you'd know if you searched the web, downloaded 11MB of data, unzipped it and sorted through it for the "Universal Serial Bus Specification Revision 2.0", then read all 622 pages of that.

6.5.1 USB Icon Location

The USB Icon is embossed, in a recessed area, on the topside of the USB plug. This provides easy user recognition and facilitates alignment during the mating process.

And from this I learn that all my Apple keyboards and mice are non-compliant devices since their marks are painted on rather than embossed into the connector. I'll have to replace them.

"First we're gonna recess 'em, then we're gonna emboss 'em, then we're gonna mate 'em!"

Designers should look to nature. Nature has certainly created some wonderful symmetries, but a symmetry which would impose hidden and unnecessary constraints on alignment during the mating process is not one of them!

This is probably the only chance I will ever get to link a page containing the words "duck penis" on HN, and you bet I will take it: http://scienceblogs.com/neurotopia/2010/01/friday_weird_scie...

Evolution can lead to really strange solutions...

I'll never look at Donald Duck the same way again. On the other hand, I guess we know now who designed the USB connectors...

In all seriousness, the USB Spec is an interesting read (I used to keep a printout of it on my desk for reference). I've pored over the physical specifications more times than I can count - it's amazing how much thought was put into this connector.

And we wonder why the rest of the world think us IT people are a bit strange :-) Never read that but pored over enough other arcane material in my time.

I wonder how much different things would be if a peer-2-peer protocol like IEEE1394 won out against USB and it's client-server model of bus communication.

The Microsoft keyboard and mouse I have, not only have the USB symbol embossed, they also sport a raised dot to help identify the correct side. Wish more manufacturers did that.

On the other hand, PC manufacturers have defeated that purpose by creating vertically aligned USB ports. Which side is the right side now? Just goes to say that intelligent specs are not enough. You can't hand a brilliant spec to a monkey and expect good implementation.

What is a 'vertically aligned USB port?' For that matter, what side of a computer is 'up?' Nothing is stopping anyone from re-orienting their computer in from the way that the manufacturer intended. Not to mention computer cases that are designed to be able to sit both ways. I think that the take-away here is that you don't design a connector that depends on the orientation of the device.

I have a pretty good idea what he means because my computer is like that.

My tower has all the USB ports set up so the long side is vertical. The tower is definitely not made to be laid on its side.

I've cursed in frustration more than once because I couldn't see the place I was trying to plug a USB cable very well and I spent far too long reaching in uncomfortable ways trying to figure out which way the damned cable would go in there without breaking things.

The worst is that a USB cable will sort of fit into an Ethernet port. The built-in Ethernet ports are right next to the USB ports. Lovely, no?

"...You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them had you? I mean like actually telling anyone or anything."

"But the plans were on display..."

"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

"That's the display department."

"With a torch."

"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."

"So had the stairs."

"But look you found the notice didn't you?"

"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of The Leopard'."

So, how do you identify the hole orientation? Does it have a mark too? What possible use is identifying the plug orientation without that?

USB plugs are a giant step backward.

When I'm mating, USB is generally not involved.

  - ... that the USB symbol is always on the top side

Yes, I thought that, except that on my father's computer it goes on the bottom. I checked quite thoroughly.

That might be because your father's computer has the usb ports mounted upside down.

It happens very often though. And in some laptops you even have all combinations at once: some mounted right, others upside down and one or two mounted vertically...

It's a mess...

More like the USB spec should have realized that the ports may end up in all sorts of configurations, especially on devices where they are trying to make the maximum amount of limited space (i.e. laptops, netbooks, etc). The connector was designed without really allowing normal people (or at least people are aren't 'in' on the group-think that can go on in working-groups) to try and use it.

You know, back in '96 I can give them some slack for not necessarily thinking about that use case.

I can't. RJ11, RJ45, RS232 and PS2 plugs were already everywhere back then, and they were mounted every which-way. And they were all physically keyed at the connector such that you could figure it out blind. Bah and humbug, I say.

Plugging in PS/2 ports is the one single single port that sucks even more than USB, because instead of flipping and putting it in right, you have to rotate the connector and try until you succeed. Or you give up the blind thing and look how the port is mounted.

With my desktop I have all sorts of combinations. One row is mounted right, the other is upside down and then there's a bus on the side that's aligned vertical.

Or, the symbol on the connector is exactly on the wrong side. I just unplugged it and compared it to a correct and lo and behold, it really is on the wrong side. So much for the spec.

I'd love to see a USB-port that can be plugged in both ways.

I thought it did that, but not everywhere. I found out by plugging it in, hearing a "Pooffh". The computer went black, and so did the external hard drive. I did not use excessive force to get it in. The "pin" inside must have been a little loose to begin with.

I read a poignant comment on YouTube (I know, I know) the other day:

"I have a theory, that USB cables have three sides: Wrong side A, wrong side B and right side. Geometry would tell us that the first side would be the same as the third one, but I know the truth."

That reminds me of a saying that we used religiously back in the Navy: "50/50/90".

If you have a 50/50 chance of making a correct decision, you'll get it wrong 90% of the time.

That's what coins are good for.

The chances are only 50/50 before you decide. After making your choice, the state collapses to 90% wrong.

That's why you don't decide. It's called a mixed strategy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_(game_theory)#Mixed_st...)

I watch this in action every time I ask my four year-old which is his right or left hand. Poor little dude gets it wrong almost every time.

How cute :)

Btw, to help him learn you could attach a bracelet to his left or his right hand. Give him a landmark that he can recognize.

Put your hands in front of you, palms facing outwards. Your left hand is where thumb and index finger form an L. (Or if he's into cars, explain it via `where the cars drive'.)

I learned which is which with a visual image.

When I was little, I always stood in the kitchen on the same chair. The left wall was dark, the right wall had a window illuminating it. Even now whenever I'm distracted and can't answer out of reflex, that image pops into my head :-)

Put your hands in front of you, palms facing inwards. Where the thumb and index finger form an L, that's your right hand.

And of course, cars where I grew up (Australia) drove on the opposite side of the road to the cars on tv (mostly US shows and movies).

I think these are both great ways to help teach kids left and right; I just like to point out the flaws since neither way helped me (and I still have to think about it). Of course, I'm far more messed up than most kids will ever hope to be!

Didn't I imply that cars drive on the right side i.e. the left side of the road?

Yeah - I was making the point about it being a confusing tool to use. When I'm outside, cars drive on the left; when I'm inside watching a movie, they drive on the right; so my brain isn't getting wired with clear signals.

>Your left hand is where thumb and index finger form an L.

This would work except that young kids get letters wrong too and a common mistake is to mirror L.

Thanks for the insight.

Doubt it helps but when I grew up sawing the pledge of allegiance every morning I could put my right hand on my heart with-out even thinking about it long before I could remember which was my right and left hands. I remembered by starting to say the pledge of allegiance in my head and I knew that the hand I moved was my right hand.

I still get it wrong most of the time.

Weirdly, I know my Port from my Starboard, so that lesson was wired into me properly.

Oh wow, this is spectacular. I can't tell you how many times I've done this:

  - USB plug doesn't fit. Must be wrong way. Switch!
  - Still doesn't fit. REALLY doesn't fit. 
    Must have been the other way around. Switch again!
  - Finagle it a bit more than the first try. OK, fits now.

You forgot:

  - stop trying to push it into power connector
  - stick it in RJ-45 hole, that doesn't feel right

Actually USB plugs go into RJ-45 sockets remarkably well. I've done it before and it felt "right" to the point where I was confused why the mouse wasn't working.

That's why I always connect the ethernet before plugging in any USB peripherals.

The preamble that talks about how USB is increasingly important in our lives is hilarious: typical hyperbolic introduction to student projects that try and fail to justify the importance of the project.

It is especially funny because it falls back on the "increasingly important" trope, when it is not only false but subsumed by a far better argument: USB is ubiquitous.

Yup, you could sum it all and simpl say:

"With the ubiquity of USB, here is a plug design that makes connecting more hassle free {pictures}"

HOWEVER,

This guy has been beat to the punch by guys at CES this year.

There was a guy handing out samples of a USB adapter that you plug into any existing USB cable and i does what this guys design does, except it doesnt have any moving parts. Rather than the sliding plastic thing, it is simply the contact board center-mounted in the metal shroud, regardless of which way you plug it, it works.

My buddy ordered 1000 to give away to customers.

Do you have the contact info for this company? I'd surely order a dozen just for around the house.

Very cool but here's my initial concern. When the set of four contacts are flipped over on top of themselves their order will be reversed and that leads to a potential for a short. The center two pins being data aren't as big of a deal but the outside pins, namely the +5 and ground would be opposite each other and quite close. Since the surface they are mounted on slides, it could potentially also wiggle up and down. Careful engineering would be required to ensure these don't come into contact, which would make a nice little short to blow out one of your USB ports.

I would consider putting a sliding plate between the two contact plates to keep the two sides separated. It would be pushed back no matter which direction it was inserted exposing the correct set of contacts.

USB ports are probably current limited, so it's unlikely that a momentary short will burn them out. However, dissipating 2.5-4W (depending on the port's power capability) through a few small components will cause them to heat up over time, which may burn out the port.

USB ports are supposed to be current limited. Given that those components cost money to buy and money to place… I think we know where low end equipment vendors are going to end up.

I'd expect current limiting to be a feature of even the cheapest USB interface ICs. It's really easy to test and potentially a short-circuit/fire hazard. Not the kind of thing any testing lab would be likely to overlook.

Wasn't there a problem recently with a USB device, that was popular on Hacker News, getting overheated and becoming a fire hazard. The sleep/time one. I believe they recalled them. Granted, I don't know which side of the cable was at issue.

Wakemate - it wasn't the cable, it was the "wall wart" charger. When I got mine (and discarded it) I noticed it was curiously similar to the iPhone 3G charger that was also recalled. Of course, my current iPhone charger looks identical as well.

You'd think. But the cheapest interface ICs only deal with the data lines. You have to go to extra effort to control the 5V line.

It isn't trivial. You want to flow 100mA without dropping your 5V source much, because the USB device is still expecting it to be 5V.

You'd think. But the cheapest interface ICs only deal with the data lines. You have to go to extra effort to control the 5V line.

That's insane.

Clearly my problem is that I am insufficiently cynical. I'll just have to try harder.

Funny story.

I assumed this as well - but while working on a school project I fried a very nice motherboard when our project got a short from a wire that had come loose. Lesson learned - use a separate power supply and keep the USB only for signalling.

Also in this vein: try explaining to your bosses why spending money for an AC adapter for a USB I/O device in a business-critical piece of hardware that does not tolerate lost signals well is a justifiable expense when it is perfectly capable of getting power from a USB cable into a computer that is already powering entirely too many things.

I actually bought it myself and smuggled in the upgrade just because the headaches it would cause me, personally, weren't worth it.

There is probably no USB Host-side interface that really implements USB current-limiting completely. Common solution (used on Intel's reference designs) involves placing solid-state fuse into +5V line (preferably for each port) and sensing if it trips (by routing +5V from actual connector to USB controller IC). Rating of such fuse is typically significantly larger than 500mA (which is maximal allowed current). Truly correct implementation of this would have array of such fuses in different ratings and would switch them according to required current declared by connected device (I don't know of any USB controller or hub IC that actually can do this, not to mention that such thing would be order of magnitude more expensive, which explains why it's not mandatory and why nobody does that). On the other hand there are also pretty common solutions that simply do not do current limiting in any way (or have non-resettable fuse soldered onto board).

How very... trusting of you. In a similar vein, I would have expected a motherboard USB circuit to handle an overvoltage from a dodgy peripheral in a contained fashion.

I can point out the blown 7A(!) fuse on the IBM T41 motherboard if necessary.

Plugged a device backward into my Dell monitor; got the "current limit" dialog popup; port was fried.

FTFY: A USB plug that goes both ways

A word gets the 'an' article based on pronunciation, not the mere fact that it starts with a vowel. Say it: "a you es bee"

See? It has a consonant sound so 'a' sounds better.

The author is pretty obviously either a non-western or a non-native English speaker. Read some of the picture captions.

That's assuming the author and the submitter are the same person.

Oh, my bad. I assumed the titles matched. I guess based on our informal English usage comparison, it is likely that the author and submitter are the same person.

OK kids, quit the bellyaching. There is only one way to get a USB cable wrong, even if you get it wrong 90% of the time. Remember the PS2. It came with round DIN connectors. There was only one right way to plug it in, but an indefinite number of wrong ways to try it. And we had to do it uphill...in the snow.

PS/2 connectors were actually more usable because you could apply light pressure and then without looking, spin it from side to side, and then push in when it "docked".

This sounds like it's more difficult

Not really, cause with a PS/2 connector you know you're probably inserting it wrong. With a USB-connector you think you're right, but you're not.

I've always wondered why the USB port is the way it is. It seems such an unbelievably stupid design, but I assume there must be a reason for it. Does anyone have a link, or brief explanation?

Incidentally a search for "why is the usb port such a stupid design?" (without the quotes) brings up nothing remotely relevant on any of the major search engines. Strange.

I'd love to see a more natural feeling interface. Why, for instance, can't we have magsafe-esque connector for USB? Or hell, maybe even a TRS connector (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS_connector) with 2 or 3 additional ring contacts? Seems like both would be much more user friendly.

Anything in the TRS configuration is prone to shorting when connecting/disconnecting. Not at al suitable for an interface that includes powered conductors.

Magsafe is patented by Apple:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Se...

That's why docking stations don't have Magsafe connections.

Probably because it's just really, really simple. Short of audio jacks, it's one of the simplest computer plugs in existence. That's a good thing when you're trying to achieve universal adoption.

I wonder how that explains the over-complex multi-layer protocol. (Go look up OTG)

Or maybe because USB-IF is built of committees made up by (mostly) the least productive people in given large organizations.

Unfortunately, audio jacks are also bone-headed.

I have been as frustrated as anyone by trying to plug in USB plugs both ways. Or by finding that USB plugs make a rather neat fit in RJ45 jacks.

But really, looking back on the history of common connectors (DB plugs, DIN plugs, 10BASE2, etc.), USB looks really simple, safe, cheap, reliable, and easy-to-use. I've never had a USB socket go bad. I've never shorted out any equipment by brushing a USB plug with a conductive object. I've never needed to clean a USB connector to get it to work properly. But all those things have happened to me with USB's predecessors.

I've always wondered, why aren't USB connectors designed to be able to be inserted either way? Does having 4 contacts vs 8 really save all that much money?

Agreed, they should just be like a firewire plug that is bidirectional (ie. not tapered at one end) with the 4 pins repeated on each side. Much better design.

FireWire plugs only fit one way, just like USB. Yet, one of FireWire's advantages is that the connector doesn't have a fully symmetrical shape, that makes it more obvious how to insert the plug. Users don't even have to look, they can feel which side is narrowest or has a dent on one side (depending on the type of FireWire plug).

http://pinouts.ru/connector/4_pin,_6_pin_or_9_pin_IEEE1394_F...

I should have made that wording clearer... by "like a firewire plug that is bidirectional (ie. not tapered)" I mean a symmetrically shaped firewire "style" plug, only with the same pins arrayed down each side... so no matter how you plug it in it's correct.

I also never understood this design decision. I can't count how many times I struggled to plug something in at the back of a PC in a poorly lit room. They should really start making this and it should become the standard.

My other wish has always been 'uni-sex' USB plugs, but I don't know if you can easily have both 'uni-sex' and invertible together.

Raskin described a plug like that in his human factors book that I read. Probably:

http://www.amazon.com/Humane-Interface-Directions-Designing-...

Yes, it is generally all about cutting costs.

I never understood why plugs like that needed to go a certain way. On a technical standpoint, yes, I get that the leads need to be oriented in such a way, but why design it so people have to think about it? Apple's mag safe connector is a perfect example of how plugs should work - it does not require anyone to think about what the correct orientation is.

Same with magnetic stripe readers for credit cards and transit passes. At this point, that reading technology is so ridiculously cheap that there should be no reason why we can't put in four different sensors so that it doesn't matter what orientation you swipe a card with.

Because the physical spec was dreamt up by electrical engineers, perhaps? I can cut them a little slack because they had to spec something everyone in the consortium could manufacture for peanuts, but not much.

The USB plug is far from the worst connector design out there. My favourite is the audio jack, where you are guaranteed to short the signal lines to earth on connection and disconnection. Really smart, that one...

Reminds me of Microsoft's Instaload design for batteries: "The two batteries can be inserted in any of the four possible orientations as shown above and the device works."

Source: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/licensing...

HN Discussion http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1480059

Smart, but I wonder how robust it is. With a sliding mechanism that small that's going to be constantly barraged with fumbling fingers, will it be able to stand the test of time? Something tells me it'll go the way of floppy disks - accidentally mangled springs, which will make the user have to toss it and get a new one. The major difference being that USB cables don't come in packs of 10.

It has the lowest robustness possible: it's some student's design project and doesn't even physically exist.

All the illustrations are renders or bad composites.

I'm aware, but that doesn't mean I can't question the robustness of the (hypothetical) final interface. If a man looks at a blueprint and asks, "will it work?" he's not asking if the ink on paper has structural integrity - he's asking about the final product.

This isn't even a blueprint, though. It's a concept piece. You can make vague judgments about it, but the truth is that people here wondering whether this would be practical is probably the closest to actual engineering that this design has gone.

I wouldn't worry much about robustness - it's not certain that this would even work in the first place.

I feel like the problem is often the opposite one. I'm plugging a USB device into the back of my PC, and can't see the direction that the USB port is facing. Some of the motherboard shields sit out far enough that, even if you look back there, you can't really see whether it's pointing up or down.

Maybe it's always consistent, but I don't have an intuitive sense for that. I would definitely pay $1 or $2 extra for cables that can be plugged in from either direction.

The USB 2.0 spec says that connectors have to stand up to 1,500 plug/unplugs.

I know people who have worn out their connectors. It's not a common problem, but . . . surely we can do better.

Too bad we can't get power over optical connects. Practical amounts of it, I mean.

Mini and micro USB (and I presume USB 3.0) are all rated for much more plug cycles. I'm sure most USB 2.0 plugs made now are actually rated for much more than 1500, but you can't exactly go about changing the spec now can you?

Mini USB has about the same robustness as big USB. It is micro USB that is much more robust, which is one of the reasons it was chosen for the European phone charger standard.

"The double USB has two contact layers which are both sketchy"

What does that mean?

"Stretchy", not "sketchy". I'm not sure what that means either though.

That's pretty clever actually! Is this a real product?

If so how does it compare for number of insertions versus 'regular' USB plugs?

Is this a large enough advantage to justify the additional costs?

>>Is this a real product?

Nope. This site features user-submitted designs.

>>If so how does it compare for number of insertions versus 'regular' USB plugs?

Signal integrity would concern me too. Getting USB HS to work right at the maximum allowed cable length is no BS as-is. The diagrams aren't clear enough to show exactly where the two contact layers are or how they're connected, but two divided sets of contacts can kill your SI in a hurry.

As an aside: why, oh why, didn't they make the USB A connector obviously keyed? I'd estimate many lifetimes have collectively been spent trying to shove in perfectly rectangular connectors the wrong way. It should be shaped like a house (a thinner version of the B connector amenable to thin devices) or an arrowhead or something.

UltraTek makes something similar: http://www.flipperusb.com/

Maybe the author of the article could be hired to redo the flipperusb site.

They should hire somebody to do it. It is atrocious!

I don't know, it's got a nice "As Seen on TV" feel.

End the frustration of broken USB connectors and end-user support issues

I'm afraid to ask... do any significant number of users actually break their USB ports by trying to insert the plug the wrong way?

I've never heard of this happening - sounds like marketing BS to help sell the need for this solution.

No. This is a solution in search of a problem. USB is the most successful computer plug for a reason, and that reason is simplicity.

I've done it, busted a port on the back of my computer where I was inserting blind. Plus it's on it's side, so you aren't sure which end is "up".

Yes. In my experience it's typically done by less technical users who simply haven't noticed that the connector is asymmetrical, so if it's not going in it must just be a tight fit.

Great design, although I doubt anyone will seriously benefit from it. Why not just plug it in where the USB symbol is on top? How does this solve anything?

Your comment amounts to "Why can't people know everything and never make mistakes?" I hope you see the problem with that.

Had the inventors of USB just made it a trapezoid or some other asymmetrical shape this all could have been avoided.

I suppose this is the reason why USB type B, mini and micro are designed as either trapezoid or have a beveled edge.

At least in micro usbs case, it doesn't really help. I still constantly try to put the cable wrong way in

"An USB"? Do you pronounce it uss-buh?

He should patent this.

This great new product will revolutionize the way we input usb cables into our laptops. I would compare its significance to being somewhere between curing polio and ending apartheid in South Africa.

Who still uses USB regularly enough to feel this is a problem? Memory sticks are irrelevant in todays Gb ethernet as standard world, printers are wireless or networked, scanners don't exist for all intents and purposes, mice and keyboards are bluetooth... the list goes on!

Almost everyone still uses USB as the baseline for almost everything. Few people use Bluetooth mice or keyboards. Networked scanners and printers are expensive when compared with USB appliances. Gb network is only standard on high-end components, most are still 10/100. USB drives are the most common form of data transfer because of the assurance that they will be compatible with most machines.

>USB drives are the most common form of data transfer because of the assurance that they will be compatible with most machines.

At $orkplace I have the 'opportunity' to see how non-technical folks work - In the last three years floppies seem to have finally died out, though there are still a few holdouts who will burn to CD-R rather than using one of those newfangled USBthingamies.

Those of us who breathe the internet tend to forget that we live in a world vastly different to that of a large proportion of the population.

USB drives are also good for storing changing files that need to be moved between work and home. You can burn more files to a CD but that takes more than 30 seconds,

A company where I used to work got paranoid about its employees walking out the door with its precious intellectual property on those things, and installed something called 'Hibun' to prevent just that. From then on, anyone who "needed" to move data to a USB drive had to use one specially made for the Hibun system, and a "key" to permit transfer in a form that could only be read on another "authorized" computer.

That was... fun.

And, let me guess, it was probably trivial to break for the black hat guys?

I can't say I really know. I didn't hear about anyone breaking it, certainly.

> You can burn more files to a CD but that takes more than 30 seconds,

CDs are 700MB. You can get GB+ USB thumb drives for free.

Perhaps IChrisI was a bit sloppy, and actually meant DVD-R?

On average, I use a USB connector about 3 times a day. I have yet to see a Bluetooth device that isn't a phone (I literally don't know a single person who has a Bluetooth controller that isn't one of those never-used phone features, nor anyone who actually owns a Bluetooth gadget, and the only ones I've even seen for sale are headsets for - you guessed it - phones).

I stopped using bluetooth headphones. However I'm very happy with the bluetooth option on my stereo, that allows me to broadcast really loud music from my Macbook.

I have a bluetooth dongle, but it was bought for and only used with my wiimote. Which was fun.

The 13 USB devices hooked into my desktop would disagree with you.

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