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Comment by bluetomcat | Hacker News Reader

In an alienated society where everyone lives in his own bubble, biking and not having a car is an easy proposition. No need to drive your sick parents to the hospital, no need to help a friend with moving the furniture, putting your child on the backseat of a bike on a rainy day is not frowned upon. Almost every aspect of social life is handled by a company in the private sector or by a public institution.

The majority of people in the world do not share those views of the Dutch and the Scandinavians, so it might not work elsewhere.

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Explain to me please why we, the Dutch, are an alienated society? We, just like most, still have to help our friends and family, move furniture and so on. Most families still own a car for this purpose, but a lot of the day to day activities can be done without a car. Saving the environment and your wallet.

Edit: spelling

It's the general level of brashness and inconsideration that astounds people from other nationalities. Silly offensive jokes expressed in the loudest way possible, not caring about the reaction of others, etc. These things lead to alienation naturally.

Anecdata: a group of 10-12 Dutch tourists have gathered on a central table in a dinner bar, all laughing as loud as possible without ever considering a mom with a sleeping baby a few meters from them. The mom tries to make facial expressions of discontent, no one gets it or no one considers it some kind of a sign.

Don't take a baby to a dinner bar then? Or just stand up and talk to the people, ask them to be a bit less noisyer. How would they know otherwise?

Since I cannot downvote this, I will reply... to say how much I disagree with your comment. One may prefer to bike even if one owns a car; one can help a friend with or without a car; one can dress one's kids appropriately for a bike ride, even in the cold / rain / snow; etc.

It's not all or nothing. There are still cars, they just don't have to be the default mode of transportation. For some circumstances cars can be useful tools, e.g. emergencies or rural living.

Having cities that require a car to participate in social life is hugely inefficient in terms of energy expenditure, public spending on infrastructure (e.g in the article the yearly expenditure on bike infrastructure is 500 million euros, that's probably about the cost of replacing one bridge made for cars), and also disproportionately impacts poor people, for whom car ownership can be a real financial burden.

Jesus christ if something's wrong with your parents you can call them an Uber right? or an ambulance

> putting your child on the backseat of a bike on a rainy day is not frowned upon

This is the best thing you can do for your child.

Also, recommended: “The Happiest Kids in the World: Bringing up Children the Dutch Way” https://www.amazon.com/Happiest-Kids-World-Bringing-Children...

As a dutch person I can say, as temperatures are dropping on the northern hemisphere, little makes my kids happier that announcing we are taking the car to school.

This book, I wonder, is its only mission to make people feel bad that they are not doing well? My kids are dutch and only play outside by themselves from 6-7 y/o, don't bike to school until they are 10-12 or so usually and they really didn't sleep very well as babies. And I definitely know some 14-18 y/o rebels.

And then there is of course this one: http://www.hollandse-bakfietsen.nl/kopen/media/catalog/produ...

My kids' only complaint about biking in the rain (or snow) is that we don't stop at the playground on the way. They're in normal exposed bike seats as well, albeit wearing clothes appropriate for the weather, so they're not even in a trailer or those fancy rain canopies that you see on box bikes.

On the contrary, cars are the vastly more alienating vehicle. You're in a sound dampened box closed off from every single human being around you. You can't even quickly pull over to chat if you spot a neighbor because the thing is way too big for that.

When I see neighbors driving a car, the most interaction I get is a wave - if they see me at all. However if I'm biking or walking, I will absolutely stop and chat because it's completely natural and human to do that.

You act like nobody in the Netherlands has a car. Most households have both a car and a few bicycles (except in a few cities), they just don't use the cars for everything like Americans tend to.

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