Feeling stuck? Write a poem | Hacker News Reader

Feeling stuck? Write a poem

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201 pointsianki107 comments

I love poetry, but think this advice is slightly off. A better way to get un-stuck is free-writing. Just write whatever comes to mind without stopping. If you hesitate, just write "I don't know what to write" - anything to keep writing.

If you can sustain this for twenty minutes, you are now immune to writer's block. You know you can always write. This shifts the question to what to write. You find you can sculpt these chains of drivel. Eventually you start to generate real ideas again.

Even if you never use the things you write in this way, it can be hugely freeing to the mind as you set aside the other things that were distracting you by putting them onto the page and are then clear to focus again on the problem at hand.

This comes from the Artist's Way, which advocates doing this daily as the primary activity of the book / workshop.

>You find you can sculpt these chains of drivel. Eventually you start to generate real ideas again.

This is the strategy I follow when posting.

Haha, yes! It only becomes problematic when I click post before doing the editing step...

Isn’t it perverse that we need such optimization techniques so that we can sit at a desk all day.

I think it’s a wonderful technique but it makes me wonder why and if we’re just -not built for this-.

It is if you're using it to force yourself to do something soul sucking.

It isn't if you are using it to give yourself the discipline to focus on completing a challenge you care about.

I agree, totally. But I think that 20 minutes of journaling per day is really valuable even if it's not for work optimization.

Do you think handwriting or typing makes a difference ?

A lot of people say handwriting is fundamentally better, but I much prefer typing because I can keep up with the flow of my thoughts more, and find I catch a higher percentage of the thoughts that are occurring. YMMV

I think the inherent constraint that exists in the poem structure can lead to the stimulation of your creativity, breaking down that "i´m stuck" feeling. i love to write Haikus (even if I suck at it) because that constraint is even more tight. i feel more relaxed and creative after several minutes of strugling to come with a decent haiku that fits the syllable count than after a session of free writing.

I did this for three days back in highschool: https://serprex.github.io/w/50k=0 (took some breaks to eat, sleep, attend school)

It permanently changed the way I write, perhaps for the worse

Hey, thanks for sharing!

I recently read A.R. Ammons Tape for the Turn of the Year (1965) and it is composed in much the same way (although it is a little more polished ;p).

Wow, that's an epic freewrite! Some really great phrases in there, too

Different approaches. Poetry structure can be all over the place from almost non-existent to something like a sonnet. The power in poetry I think is trying to find surprising imagery to express the point, and that shift in perception is what this article is arguing for.

Is there value in free writing? Of course. I've done morning pages. I've also done free writing when struggling with problems in multiple realms (code and prose/novel writing). But sometimes it simply doesn't push you hard enough compared to the forced perception change.

You can certainly TRY to create that change in free writing, but then are you REALLY free writing, since you are limiting what you put on the page?

Yeah, fair enough. I have found sonnets and sestinas to be really interesting ways to explore ideas, too, because of their structure.

I suppose the level and kinds of restrictions you self-impose affect the kind of space you explore. Both are useful.

Within free writing, even, there are different levels of "free", all the way from don't stop to remember spelling of a word or ever hit backspace, to allowing minor corrections and subtly directing your train of thought towards a goal but not allowing significant pauses to think, which gets into more like draft writing.

Usually I've only written poems when the seed of an idea happens to already be there I want to write as a poem. I'll try that as a way to get unstuck as suggested. Seems interesting. :)

Here's an easy way to always have something to write about:

Step 1: Try new framework/language/dev-tool/library.

Step 2: Make bullet point list of pain points.

Step 3: Come back to the list anytime you need to write something and expand on why the thing sucks so much and how everyone involved must've been dropped on their heads as a child.

It's easy to overcome writer's block with rage and the drive that people need to know how much you hate the thing you hate. Bonus points for making it as personal as possible.

> If you hesitate, just write "I don't know what to write" - anything to keep writing.

But don't use: "all work and no play makes jack a dull boy"

Heeeeeeeeere's Johnny!!!!!

I love this idea and I really appreciate you sharing it!

I swear, one of my largest struggles with writing is finding exactly what to put on the page, as well as putting it on the page in the first place.

Sometimes I write a lot of words, rewrite them, don’t like them and then delete them because I don’t think they’re worth saying or they can’t establish the point well enough for me to feel like they are worth keeping.

Perhaps I should simply put them in an archive instead to come back to later and see if I can refine them.

Absolutely! I still tend to stop and edit and overthink way too much to finish longer things, so tomorrow I'm starting https://nanowrimo.org/ to attempt to actually finish a novel draft without any second guessing. It's in the same spirit as the freewriting exercise, just extended to a month. :)

It depends. The article is advocating for writing poetry if you are struggling to communicate. That’s not the same as struggling to write.

“Writer’s block” covers a wide range of definitions from “I don’t know what to write about” to “I don’t believe I even can even write a grocery list.” There is often a large psychological component. Free writing can help in some cases, but in other cases the free writing can be repetitive and uncreative, possibly exacerbating the underlying psychological issue.

Plugging a side project: if you want to be reading more poetry but don't know where to start, sign up at https://verse.press/ to get a weekly poetry "playlist" in your inbox. Sometimes it's a set of poems on single theme by different authors, sometimes it's a sampler of poems from a recently published book.

Does it only feature new works or does it take from the six centuries of great poetry we have in the English language.

The about page says

> My goal with the project is help people find great new poems.

To me, that sounds like it's focused on recent works.

That sounds hugely restricting the scope when so much of great poetry has been already written in the past.

It’s a newsletter dedicated to showcasing contemporary poets. Do you complain if there’s a radio show which plays new music because it’s excluding all of the good music which has already been made?

Yes, of course!

There's lots of good music made in the past, but I still read music review sites that review recently released music.

All poetry was written in the past.

This is a fair question but it's clear on the website it's mainly focused on contemporary stuff, partly because they consider it difficult to find.

That's not at all the case with classic poetry, I think.

Also, by definition, the canon is established - this initiative seems a good way of helping unestablished poetry into the spotlight.

Personally, I'd like to see a mix, with an emphasis on the contemporary; I think it would also draw a bigger audience, tho tbf I don't know what a modern poetry audience is looking for.

I would say that there is such vast amounts of poetry from the past, ( And there is enough there for readers to discover poems and poets they have not read before), contemporary poetry would be a small fraction of the entire whole.

Even some major poets like Wordsworth wrote such volumes of poetry, even seasoned readers can find something new and unread from his work.

I agree - but it is arguable that a significant majority of poetry by canonical poets is settled in acclaim. Obscurities by them generally (but not always), are obscure for a reason.

This will not at all be the case with new and contemporary poetry for the simple reason that these things take time to settle.

Classic poetry has had enough exposure; contemporary needs support and nurturing. Some of it will fall by the wayside, some of it will become the canon of the future.

Let's help it get there.

I should also mention that very many poets and remarkable works have due to matters of popular taste, etc has failed to secure a firm place in the cannon as it is now. So I think considering the cannon, older works and poets need continual relook and re-evaluation. Poets like Edward Young, Walter Scott, perhaps even Dryden, etc may fall into such a category. Even works of 20 century poets like Ezra Pound and Philip Larkin, aren't that popularly known to general readers.

I find the cannon limiting, for the reason that it does not cover enough of the past, it makes a narrow representative selection that misses out many unique and eccentric voices of their time.

Canon

Man I am incredibly curious what your bounds are for “great poetry”

Very cool! I'd like to add that: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/ also has an email list for poem of the day. I may do both. :)

FYI I ran into a csrf error -- maybe I was logged in to another django site?
Also, I would suggest setting DEBUG=False for production?

In my hand I hold a chip.
I skip to the kitchen to grab some dip.
When I return with my liquid cheese,
I drop to my knees and cry out 'Jeez!'
For much to my dismay,
My cat is in my bag of Frito Lay.

Cat, cat, why do you meow?
I bend down to pet you now,
but then you dart away.

cat drinks cold water
black as night against half moon
should have got a dog

dog goes bark
cat goes meow
neighbor isn’t happy
always raising eyebrow

Wish I "got" poetry. Spent 4 years studying literature and got a degree in writing, and throughout it all poetry just annoyed me. I think I made a genuine effort but I couldn't get over feelings of "get to the point" or "so what?" Everything from Byron to Billy Collins. Doesn't do anything for me.

Have you ever been touched by writing outside of poetry?

Yes, all the time. Typically fiction, sometimes non.

May be you could try it once again, I found that I couldn't get it too while I was younger.
The work that greatly helped me to appreciate poetry better was, "Understanding Poetry" by Robert Penn Warren and Cleanth Brookes.

Have you read any Chinese poetry? AFAIK it inspired the "concrete" movement in western poetry. In just a few characters a Chinese poem can create a whole world. So while western poetry to me often just seems like word craft, Chinese poetry answers the "what's the point" question by creating a rich world in your mind with as few words as possible.
It demonstrates that with just a few subtle linguistic cues the human mind can be made to simulate an entire world. And, more importantly, if those cues are well chosen that world will be complete with memory, emotion, sound, light, and movement. Not because those things are in the poem itself, they exist in your response to the poem as the negative space is filled in by your imagination. In that way poets are engineers not of language but of the human mind.

Would you recommend any English translations?

Robert Bly did a collection of haiku with essays accompanying them that's good.

I liked this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P719UYi6uRQ. It explains the structure of a particular type of Chinese poem, with translations of a couple of classics, and gives a good feel for the overall "flavour".

I have a suggestion you might like: Read (not listen to) hip-hop. Old school hip hop such as 2Pac, Nas, Rakim, or new school artists like Lupe, Common, Eminem. Hip hop is really poetry. It might help you understand the rhyme schemes and stanza structure.

I really enjoy reading hip hop lyrics. I mostly use genius.com because the annotated lyrics can be very helpful. I would also suggest reading Kendrick Lamar. Here is one of my favorites, lyrically: https://genius.com/Kendrick-lamar-sing-about-me-im-dying-of-...

As another person to whom poetry does nothing this is also a good example. I listen to a lot of Hip Hop, but the lyricism was never part of the appeal for me. I view the rapper's voice as merely another instrument. This includes the flow or cadence they may use.

Agreed. For more modern ones, Dessa and Kate Tempest are also really great.

I studied literature as well [granted, did not matriculate] but precisely because I fell in love with literature and poetry (already having been involved in music) in high school.
Did you ever read any Canadian poetry?
Some of our more celebrated poets were a little more literal, or prosaic, or largely storytellers. A prime example is Al Purdy (here performed by both himself reading, and in a dramatic presentation by Gord Downie [RIP]. Hopefully this is easily digestible as a sampling over pointing you to pages with words on them):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPKeczB3wrg

What a great combination. I didn't know it existed! I discovered Purdy through Downie years ago, but didn't know about this. I'm still in such grief over Downie dying just over two years ago, which is strange for a man that I did not know and only met briefly once. I have been a Hip fan since I became conscious of music and culture and it just grew into something I could no longer contain. Thank you for sharing.

Man, the whole country is still grieving over the loss of that man. I get it. (Side note: his last solo album is like a blow to the heart. “Introduce Yourself”)
If you liked that you should dive down the YouTube rabbit hole. There is at least one dramatic reading by Gordon Pinsent as well:
https://youtu.be/yCBKlGbsL-o

Here's a short essay on it I wrote a long time ago.
I would rewrite a lot of this now for general quality, but I think my thesis is sound:
https://albertstimson.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/why-poetry/
Of note: this takes a fairly strict definition of what poetry even is, and I would argue that a lot of things that superficially look like poems don't accomplish any of what makes a poem be worthwhile as something different from prose.

Poems by themselves are nothing more than clever phrases. When they connect with important moments or emotions they become much more powerful.
I recall memorizing and composing poems with my mother on long car trips growing up. Some of which I can still recite. I remember revising a poem for school, sat on the toilet, next to a shower on full hot, because the heater was out and the house was freezing cold. Birds chirping in the morning remind me of the line "And smale fowles maken melodye that slepen al the night with open ye" in the voice of a memorable teacher who predicted the only thing I'd recall from his class was the intro to the Canterbury Tales.
Poetry is a lot like idiomatic code. It looks right. It feels right. There's a thrill when a terse expression efficiently accomplishes exactly what's needed.

I already appreciated poetry, but this book a friend who previously didn't realize I wrote (prose but interested in getting back into poetry) helped me get an even deeper appreciation, as it explores different poets works, then after each poet's section challenges you to write a poem taking techniques from one or more of the poems by the poet of the prior section.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0074FSXKI/ And after that I read this which I also appreciated https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003L203TW/

My extremely smart ex got an English degree: she watched the movies instead of reading the assigned books.
I believe English is best spoken; if you really want to understand poetry, perhaps get involved with spoken poetry.
Caveat: I am more of a literal engineer type, personally I don't see much pleasure in poetry, although I admire the occasional evocative piece.

Some people, when confronted
with a problem, think “I know —
I’ll write a poem.”
Now they have two problems.
Some poets, when stuck
writer-blocking, think “I know —
I’ll write a poem.”
Now they do not have two poems.

Ant farts are hard to hear
hard to smell yet so near
they cause minor headwinds
in hindsight of tiny hind legs
they cause minor earthquakes
yet nobody is scared, or cares.

ear to the ground
nose to the wind
feet firm in place
heart rich in space

I was feeling stuck
~So~ I wrote a poem to help
I still feel stuck though

It's because you chose a haiku. It needs to at least be a Sonnet.

Because you did 5-8-5!

is poem one syllable or two? I'll remove "so"

Technically two, but depends on how you decide to annunciate it.

That restriction can't actually be adhered to in the right spirit outside the Japanese language, and isn't 100% adhered to even in that language.
Counting syllables
quickly on the fingertips
before clicking Post

this haiku is large and has too many words per line
in fact it doesn't even have the right amount of lines

one may ignore
the prescriptions of the form -
but not blithely

More important though are the seasonal words. A lot of non-Japanese haiku misses this and for me it misses the point of the haiku entirely. You goal is not to construct a meaningful sentence with a certain number of syllables (or mora in Japanese), but to construct a sense of place and occasion in that structure. It has been said (though I don't know by whom) that to be Japanese is to be intimately aware of the weather. Historically Japanese people lived in insubstantial houses that were very open to the elements. Even now, many older people don't use heat in the winter or air condition in the summer. There are types of flowers that mark each passing season as well. If you make reference to these seasonal things, then it brings the reader into your space.
Basho's famous poem of a frog is a good example (this is my attempt at a 5-7-5 translation):
Into an old pond a frog jumps in suddenly. The sound of water.
I added "suddenly" to make up the the 7 in the second line, which I think is in keeping with the story that Basho never actually saw the frog. It was that the world's silence was broken by the sound of the water from the jumping of the frog.
But the key for anyone who has lived in the countryside is that frogs appear in the spring and their noise can be deafening. So to be aware of the sound of the frog's splash, one has to be at the start of spring, when the air is still cool and the world is just waking up from it's winter's rest. It creates a connection to the feeling of being lost in thought and suddenly awakening though the sudden sound of a splash of water. You get the feeling of renewal, rebirth and starting afresh. Or at least, this is what the poem says to me.
All this to say to the OP, I think if you try to think of a place or a situation that is iconic to you and then use a "seasonal" word to refer to that situation, then you will get more out of your haiku. For example, I really, really like juped's "before clicking Post" line because it evokes that feeling that we all know on HN -- a kind of shared experience.
And, yes, the syllables are not so important in my mind as long as it's close. It is said that more important than the syllables is that you have a break in the middle somewhere. So you should usually aim for 2 sentences/thoughts in your three lines with some kind of break of structure to indicate the division. In Basho's poem you get the "sound of water" that stands in contrast to the frog jumping in.

Wasn't there a similar article not too long ago which said go for a run/jog? Not a whole lot of real advice here other than an interesting suggestion to the age old advice I've heard my whole life: "Stuck? Take a break and do something different"

Maybe making up a poem while going for a run/jog would really help.

I recently hand wrote a poem for my fiancée with 12 stanzas (3 verses each with a rhyme scheme ABB) on a paper that I doused in coffee and baked to make it look ancient. I sent it using regular post with 'love' stamps. The outcome was far better than I had expected; she was overjoyed :)

Ode to hackernews users:
I enjoy your poetry,
this verse you give away for free,
like all side projects, lovingly
creating content for newbs like me

Great, then I can be stuck on my work and on my writing.

You'll feel better though.

And I’ll add another: Not feeling the creative juices flowing? Restrict yourself to a particular pentameter or style when writing that poem.
Working with restrictions is one of the not-so-secret prerequisites to a lot of creative discipline.

True, and Mr Fry also agrees! I posted this elsewhere but I love this book and recommend to people, anyone can get into poetry!
https://www.amazon.com/Ode-Less-Travelled-Unlocking-Within-e...

tried to work, but had the blues
i wasted time on hackernews
distraction, it's the modern curse
but still there's time to pen a verse
and realize that it could be worse:
until you're riding in a hearse, success is yours to sieze or lose!

Procrastination
There's so much to do but I don't want to Such a bore to do but someone has to Browsing HN the clock's ticking Maybe the task will go away but it doesn't

My head hurts, My eyes are heavy. Sleep will come soon, Lord knows I'm ready.
When I awake, I hope I'm well rested. Much work to be done, before I can get festive.
I really do love this time of year. World dark and foggy, but everyone near. Close to each other, it's warmer inside. Sit by the fire, laugh and confide. Tell silly jokes and lighten the mood. Eat till we're fat full up with food.
Yet I still want to wake to the sun in my eyes Feel my mind crystal clear as the winter time dies. But while it's alive, I'll sieze it fully. For now I'm wrapped up all fuzzy and wooly.

SCO's C.E.O. Darl McBride
To the press he repeatedly lied
Linux stole our IP!!!
GPL'd it for FREE!!!
But no evidence could he provide

If moths had eyes, would they be happier? How do they know they're not dead? Cavemen hunting for food But not before they style the hair on their head What would last longer in dinosaur times? A blind man didn't stand a chance Not with all them rocks about I'd rather be a blind moth - Karl Pilkington

Moths do have eyes - they are very important to their survival and behaviour.

Here's a live reading https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BsgsTehplQ
:)

I wonder if this article will spur a nerd poetry genre, if there isn't one already.
There are a lot of niche poetry genres. One of oldest and largest is cowboy poetry. It has a national radio show, books, yearly gatherings and even a museum.
https://www.nationalcowboypoetrygathering.org/

I would even shorten the imperative and say: “Feeling stuck? Write”
Writing is amazing, and one of the best changes in my life was introduced by systematically writing things down that I did, experienced, felt. This can be a poem, a two page essay, a letter never meant to be sent, a simple protocol of the things I did, a word, a drawing whatever.
Important is that it has to do with the mood and what you did.
This especially helped me when I went through a hard time and started to think more and more negatively about certain things that happened, because I could go back and get an instant reminder about the whole depth and nuance of these situations rather than negatively or positively mutating their memory based on mood alone.
In a way, writing can help you become really really honest with yourself and stops you from buying into your own hype (as long as you write to yourself and not to others).

If you are like me, you might have this near constant need to feel productive throughout the day.
Sitting outside with a notebook and writing poetry or ideas or just stream of consciousness is a pretty great way to soothe this desire for achievement and forward progress while being outside and away from the computer.

I need to recalculate tax
But my background knowledge lacks
I'll try to learn more
But it's really a bore
And it's stressing me to the max

Better yet, combine science fiction with poetry. Write SCiFiKu!
http://scifaiku.com/read/topten.html

Going for a walk or a bike ride or something that's not so intense you can't let your mind wander is also a great way to get 'unstuck'.

I read this book [0] many years ago, it's awesome if you want to get in to writing poetry, and it's Stephen Fry, win win!
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Ode-Less-Travelled-Unlocking-Within-e...

I want to write code but my progress has really slowed.
It’s kind of a mess without written tests.
I’ll just do my best and implement the rest.

Perhaps not necessary to write a poem, reading itself may help. Reading poetry is a more involved task than reading prose, your mind is forced build up all the details poems leave out.

Anti gravity is yet unsolved Perhaps no one is enough resolved Truly I say to you This is my big todo.

Wrong thread?!

It's a poem. I'm getting unstuck, lol

A poem
I wrote for the all of you
Stuckness stayed

Feeling stuck? Make your code rhyme.

You may or may not be aware, but code poetry[1] is a thing. Black Perl[2] is probably the most iconic.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_poetry
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Perl

Black Perl is a thing of beauty and genius.

xterm in autumn
thick red and amber carpet -
unit test results.

Feeling stuck? Write a mediocre opinion piece.

Do you have any constructive criticism?

You don't just.. stop field measurements. They take months to years in preparation, are usually a group effort and very expensive, and if there is a gap in the data you will never be able to get that back.
I mean.. automate the thing and then go sit in the shade and write poetry while you supervise, sure. But stop? Whut?

Yes it means end the project, hand in your resignation and then make a haiku.
sarcastic what I can't believe this emote

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