DJI Mavic Mini
dji.com
dji.com
Had to laugh at this bit though:
> “My girlfriend and I can simply enjoy our time together making memories and leave the rest to Mavic Mini.”
... followed by a lengthy video of them either centering their entire attention on the drone taking the video, or standing to "enjoy nature" while discretely flying the drone at the same time, so that it can take a video of them serenely enjoying their perfect moment in nature.
Yes, I also carry a camera and take a lot of photos, but I don't run off the tour bus or out of the car, in an effort to get a shot before anybody else gets there (various waterfalls in Iceland). Nor do I get verbally abusive when people wander into a shot, which I encountered repeatedly at Machu Picchu.
There is a sweet spot, since I'm at the far extreme other end of the spectrum, and have my own regrets.
I don't take pictures. I just looked, and there's probably between 10 and 20 a month in my phone over the last few months, but the vast majority of those are for stuff I got or sent in an message from my wife or a family member, and a few I took to document my MPOE after new equipment was installed.
I used to just say to people that I don't really see the point of pictures to remember something. Then I got a little older and realized that I have a crap memory for events, but unfortunately my ways are mostly set, and I'm just not the kind of person that thinks to take a picture (and I'll never post it on social media, that's for sure).
The downside is that unless someone else is around to document it for me, there's not much visual evidence to remind my of past events or help me reminisce. I've missed it at times.
One way that has perhaps been personally helpful in moderating the amount of photos taken is that I mostly use a film camera. This has its downsides, but one upside is that you're limited by the amount of film you physically brought, and so you take a single photo of something rather than 20 (which, incidentally also cuts down on the amount of time you spend picking the "perfect one" -- you either got it or you didn't, and that's it).
That being said, as phone cameras have gotten better, I have found myself taking more photos with those devices as well... but perhaps due to habits developed with a film camera, I still manage to find a balance between just looking at what's around me, device in pocket, and taking it out to snap a nice picture here and there.
Lol the one to respond to my comment might be the 1/100 ppl that actually print their photos and hang it in their house.
I do consider myself a photography hobbyist. I try to find neat shots - some are fairly standard shots that pros have all done better (look, another shot of Machu Picchu from the Sun Gate!). Others are simple street scenes, or flowers and landscapes, or whatever other random stuff I happen upon on vacation. Sometimes I try portraits as we're moving through vacation (though that's biggest weakness - most are crap). I like to think looking for unique shots forces me to experience my surroundings, but I won't claim that's true for all people.
I've printed a few shots, like to share my better shots with friends & family, and will go back and look at albums occasionally. And also try to ID what I did poorly and work to correct it on upcoming trips. Some of my favorites end up as desktop backgrounds, screen saver, etc. I should really consider getting a very high quality LCD display to rotate through some - maybe a project of the future.
This effectively motivates to also take photos of mundane day to day moments, that will feel so far away in 5 or 10 years.
(spoiler: check my profile)
They have the photo, I have the memory, I think I prefer my way.
If DJI can better hook into porn industry than other drones - that could be a boon for them.
Ethical question: are DJI the good guys here working within the rules set out of the FAA, or are they running afoul of the spirit but staying within the letter?
This is true even in things as routine daily chit-chat and conversation. Think about how often tacitly express your opinion through the way you frame a discussion and how often those environmental cues bias other parties to respond in particular ways. Then, consider how often marketers, salespeople, and other manipulators intentionally frame interactions to provoke a specific biased response.
The light touch and the small nudge are grossly undervalued.
This is (part of) the reason people spend hours debating seemingly mundane aspects of rules & regs, legislation, corporate bylaws, etc. Eventually someone will have a [dis]incentive and try to get around something.
Or the intensity of enforcement varies in the first place.
And chances are you’re doing something else illegal anyway.
Or can be followed until you do.
And if you don’t, there’s always the routine traffic stop.
someone has to decide which cases to bring, unless you fund the police and prosecutors so they can bring every plausible case, which sounds like a strictly worse universe to live in. Is this discretion abused? Yes, all the time. But bringing every case seems more like a police state than a free society.
Testing the boundaries of murder and rape laws is, of course, a different matter.
The part 107 commercial UAS exam that already exists requires a lot of studying and costs $150 to take, and this falls on the easy end of your typical FAA exam.
DJI is hedging that the recreational flyer test is going to be a massive barrier for recreational pilots, which is why they're pushing a <250g UAS into the market.
If you use the heavy battery you go over 249g I’m also not sure if their flight stats were measured with the heavy one or the light one I’ll bet that they are with the 100g battery.
This means that under most conditions you’ll likely have 8-10min of flight time with the light battery since the advertised max flight time is often 30-50% over real world scenarios with these drones.
But for toy drones, the 50g battery is fine. Especially since that pack lets you carry 3 of them. Plus I'm sure the next generation will be lighter still with still greater flight time. And the generation after that. Etc.
Future seems pretty bright for these "family pictures" type drones. But they aren't competitive with the big boys for certain use cases right now.
Battery technology is maxed out currently, plastics and composites aren’t going to change much...
Not much weight shedding to be done here my bet is that they’ll add more collision sensors as they become cheaper but not much else they can do.
They shouldn’t add any weight and you’ll offset their weight with the removal of the material from the chassis.
As for the flight characteristics I’m pretty sure they did everything with the heavier battery you go from 18W to 8W in exchange for losing 50g which is only 16% reduction in weight form 299 to 249.
If anything the loophole battery would perform considerably worse given the power output of the cell compared to the full one.
It also looks like the S mode isn’t available for the smaller battery I have a feeling that once reviews will start popping out the FAA approved config will be called gimp mode.
Go on the M4 though and 10 over is too slow for many!
I'm really not sure; and I could see arguments either way.
I see 249g/199g (JP) for takeoff weight in the specs, which suggests to me that with the 100g battery it's 249g grams, and with the 50g battery it's 199g (presumably in Japan, which seems to be a 200g limit where others are 250g).
So no, I don't think DJI are being "bad guys" by kissing up to the limit because the rules were made by people who do think things through very thoroughly.
Edit: This wasn't posted as a judgement, it's just an observation of a trend.
Traditionally DJI drones have had very underpowered motors so they can get those high flight time numbers; seeing the 30 minute flight time quote here doesn't give me much confidence that it will fly well with anything other than perfect wind conditions.
I can't wait to tear one apart and see what kinds of compromises/trade offs they've made compared to their larger drones.
A drone needs to tilt to work against the wind, but this also increases its wind loading.
It's possible for the maneuver to require so much sideways thrust that you will bleed some altitude and start to fall to the ground (granted on a racing drone this is probably measured in centimeters for most maneuvers, but you get the idea)
Racing drones usually have a thrust:weight ratio of 8:1 or so, but the large Mavik Pro has a thrust:weight of 2.5:1, and their smaller Spark a ratio of ~2:1. You need a minimum TWR of about 2:1 to be flyable.
If the Mavic Mini has a similar TWR as the spark, then it's very unlikely you'll be able to fly it in any sort of windy conditions.
I'm in the market for a drone at the moment (eyeing the mavic air over the mini to be honest) for holiday type shots, all this racing stuff is pointless as far as I'm concerned. I can't figure out based on your comment whether the wind will screw a wide shot or not, it might not make it through a circle, but i'll never get this drone through this sort of activity anyway.....
I realize now that the way I described it in my parent post doesn't make very much sense
I saw some quads with lateral DOFs that used swashplates and piston engines in the 40-50kg class, but then you basically have a helicopter with 4x the problems of a helicopter.
A simpler way of stating it is that when you have a heavy drone and a light drone with the same thrust to weigh ratio, the heavier drone will be able to hold its position much easier than the lighter drone in a gust.
I was responding to: "Traditionally DJI drones have had very underpowered motors" - I'm sure there are tougher drones out there, but underpowered for what? I shoot video and photo for commercial purposes with mine and find that it handles wind very well, rain too. Incredible given the size means you can fold it down into a backpack and not lug around a Pelican case.
BUT - it's worth pointing out that if you live in some cities like Boston, that it is nearly impossible to fly a drone in city limits. Or Cambridge. Or Somerville. Check out the maps on Skyvector; it's 70/SFC, until you're in Watertown, parts of Quincy of north of Lynn. The FAA says to call the tower for permission; and I've spoken to the tower at Logan, and they said the FAA told them to not grant anyone permission (this was 2 years ago admittedly).
So having a little micro drone that you can fly 30 ft in the air around your house legally since it's under the weight limit? Pretty neat.
But I could see people going either way.
Does it just need to pass the FAA requirements or are there local police requirements?
It's good practice on forums with a global membership, especially when talking about a Chinese company's latest product, to specific where you are / which country's laws you're talking about.
Still conflicted on spending $1000 on the new skydio for what would mostly be a toy for me.
My dream for my Mavic was capturing new angles of family activities. However, the truth is that the effort required to capture those activities with a Mavic ruins the enjoyment of many of them.
Say I wanted to get video of my kids biking. I've got to make sure the drone is charged, have my kids wait around on the trail while I launch it, and then compose the shot and stand there looking at my phone, worrying about running into stuff while they bike.
The Skydio's pathfinding and sensors take a good chunk of that hassle away. I could theoretically hand the beacon to one of them, and say, "Ok, great, go ride." And for 20-minutes, the drone would do all the work of getting video, while I rode with my kids.
Assuming real-world reviews of the Skydio 2 come back positive, I think that'll be my Mavic's replacement.
Theres a certain predatory element to the flying the Skydio does while operating in trees that is awesome and creepy at the same time.
Edit: video in question - https://youtu.be/2UbRP5YsjuY
Flying starts around 4:30. Definitely watch it negotiate through the trees a bit then fast forward to the riding at the end if you get bored.
I think what we're running into though is the sheer size of North America. Even within the city here, there are a fair number un(der)developed areas with no/few people around. Out of the city, there rest stops or sometimes even just viewpoints. For all of these, with a bit of walking I can avoid annoying anyone.
Somewhere like Switzerland, that might not be possible.
Is a smaller drone going to even more issue with wind or have they improved this?
I'd say rule of thumb is if you wouldn't want to eat a nice brunch in it, you don't want to fly in it.
edit: Pretty sure it uses GPS, compass, and gyro to stabilize itself relative to the wind.If gentle winds are causing it to drift too much, you might be having trouble with one of those. You might want to calibrate compass and make sure you're getting good GPS reception. I've found stabilization is not good in WiFi control mode either.
I've flown P4P, Mavic Pro, and Spark. Only the big, heavy P4P was stable in strong winds. Even with the larger cross-section the bigger motors in the P4P make a remarkable difference.
I’ve met plenty of photographers who go out on a casual shoot with just the Mavic Pro. The Mavic can be thrown in a photo bag. The Phantom is it’s own bag.
They still list the Spark on the site but no stock, unless it will have an update shipping soon. Still, this looks good.
I have a Spark and I'm really looking forward to this and being out from under the thumb of the FAA (<250g). DJI has knocked it out of the park this time.
If there is a forum out there for hacking DJI's stuff, I haven't found it yet.
On my personal wishlist for future drones are more sophisticated and precise physical controllers with better pressure gradients, and especially the ability to program flight routes to allow mixed human/automated controls – e.g. "Respond to flight controls normally, but when I press this button 1) increase altitude to 90m over the course of 15 seconds 2) rotate camera downwards by 30 degrees over 15 seconds 3) begin rotating aircraft left by 1 degree per second"
Only thing I'd be worried about a bit is if they have the potential to go the same way as GoPro. DJI reminds me a lot of how GoPro was a few years ago.
But for a while, GoPro had fairly explosive growth, in my perspective anyway. But after some time they stopped really innovating and some other brands with cheaper products but similar quality began getting some traction. So GoPro kind of dropped the ball. I think they've been getting better again the past year though.
But again, not a market expert; this is just what I can remember seeing and reading about.
To the people that are excited because this is outside some regulatory limits. A few years ago there were no or few drone regulations and people abused this; the result was strict national and city regulations to the point that flying a drone is almost impossible (legally) in some cities in the US.
If people abuse the regulatory limits expect more strict regulations. I fly drones and I support such regulations.
BTW, a 249g drone would likely take down a small airplane.
Or alternatively, a small bird in the wrong place can take down a plane. Or for that matter, a clog in the pitot tube from ice.
Quite false. Although the resolution isn't different, the camera sensor in the phantom is twice the size and has better optics on it. In terms of photography, it's a no-brainer.
We still use a Mavic however due to the ability to upload a CSV of coordinates and camera angles, which is a much better fit for the photogrammetry we use it for.
The rest though? DJI had years to improve the Spark and instead they made it worse for photographers. No more panorama? Really?
That was the only way to get a bit more resolution of of that tiny 12MP sensor. Frankly without it there is no point for me to own it.
No DNG support. Of course. Yea so difficult to do. No 24fps for video folks. Sure...
> 4 km for FCC compliant Model (MT1SS5) and 2 km for CE compliant Model (MT1SD25).
As it weight 249g you don't have to register with the CAA and as long as you keep it under 400ft altitude and within 150ft from other people and private property you can fly it anywhere where there isn't a local limitation and it's not restricted airspace.
In places where there are limitations e.g. London and other big cities you can fly it on private property.
Please note that in the UK the entity that manages a park or other public spaces can impose its own restrictions e.g. you can't fly drones in Alexandra Palace despite Barnet Council not having a wide ban on drones.
For the most part don't be an idiot the police doesn't enforce these rules for the most part outside westminster where the cops do chase down drone flyers especially around the tourist spots since you aren't allowed to fly anything within 150m of a congested area which is pretty much any spot in central london.
"You were exploiting a loophole. You may have been adhering to the letter of the law, but you were in gross violation of its spirit. We don't play games in this courtroom. Your fine is $250 and you owe $437 in court fees."
They may become a hassle here and there but it won’t last.
My browser sends the correct headers, accept-language: en-US,en;q=0.9,da;q=0.8.
If I buy a tool, and the tool now belongs to me, the manufacturer attempting to restrict my use of that tool is morally unjustifiable.
(Yes, I have an iPhone, and yes, I'm pissed off about that, too.)
Too bad, I was considering one in lieu of a full frame dslr. Looks like hi-res, poorly shot photos are back on the menu.
I am complaining about the equipment, not the NFZ. You would, too, if your aircraft ignored control inputs under certain opaque, manufacturer-supplied (and signed) network-updated conditions.
The hardware’s job is to obey the operator. The operator’s job is to obey the law.
I've been flying various multicopters for a decade and the mavic pro was the last DJI product I'll ever purchase. Every software update for DJI products restricts their functionality to a subset of what they shipped with. This has been going on for years. People buy dedicated phones/tablets for their DJI product and keep them in airplane mode to prevent this. That's nuts.
What do you mean by that? I've been flying around the Austrian alps without any problems but when I'm at home I can't go higher than xxx meters above my town because it's within the flight path of a local airport. Which seems to be a reasonable approach?
Otherwise it’s not my tool, it’s in service to the manufacturer, the government, or some shade in between. Those aren’t good tools, because they can only be used for certain purposes, in certain circumstances.
I prefer tools that do exactly what I wish them to do, for better or worse.
The iPhone is another question entirely, I agree with you there.
as a matter of principle, I don't accept that a device I own should do anything more or less that what I tell it to do.
I don't expect HN to agree with me on this principle, so I will also present a practical argument. these kinds of controls that protect users from wrongdoing tend to be implemented incredibly crudely. my house is close enough to a major airport that it triggers DJI's flight restriction. if the drone happens to get a GPS fix inside my house it will deactivate itself and land. there's no way a small drone can be a threat to the public when it's hovering inside my living room, and I'm pretty sure the legal restrictions don't apply inside of a structure anyway.
Your judgement, in aggregate, can safely be assumed to suck, by me, someone who doesn't know you. It may not actually suck, but in situations where you can clearly and obviously harm me (hitting a plane with your drone), I don't want you to have any choices in the matter. Sorry, but others have ruined the fun for both of us.
I up voted the sibling comment (diminoten) even though it was a bit aggressive. Leetcrew say s/he doesn't trust the controls programmed "crudely" by others. But the sibling logically points out that leetcrew's actions could be just as crude from the others' point of view.
I think leetcrew's principles are misdirected here. With software, you can't really own the device. Look at the librem5 debacle: you can't control the radios because the FCC doesn't license unlocked radios. If you had a ham license you could buy and operate any radio the way you want (within the rules). What's really missing is disclosure. DJI should be clearly documenting their software controls and all geographic restrictions so you know exactly what capabilities you are paying for.
There is still a middle ground of "unlocked" drones that you only need to register with FAA to use, but you still need to follow the rules yourself. But it is in the drone manufacturers interest to self-regulate to avoid being banned altogether. If too many yahoos and others (see Gatwick incidents) cause problems, authorities can easily kill their profitable industry. So I think these "personal-responsibility" drones will quickly be phased out by the industry.
There have always been tools of mass destruction available in our society. You can buy unlimited quantities of gasoline and propane without the nozzle tips doing a cryptographic handshake ensuring that you’re putting it into a car and only a car. Same goes for explosives. They’re readily available, without scrutiny. It’s sufficient having laws against murder and blowing things up.
We don’t need technological restrictions. Indeed, the law does not require them for drones. This is purely DJI being proactive and fucking their customers.
In most jurisdictions, the regulatory burden of a small quadcopter is significantly greater than that of an AR-15. The potential harm vs utility argument doesn't even register here.