—Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Cause of the Wealth of Nations, vol. 1,
—Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Cause of the Wealth of Nations, vol. 1,
It applies in this particular case: I'm not very familiar with Smith's work, and I am a bit puzzled that this quote is from him.
E.g, radically, labor markets in the absence of a basic income system are not really free, since employees starve and lose their homes if they do not accept the best available offer. Hence companies' competition for paid labor is not really free, and most groups have an existential threat if they do not accept the terms of the employers that are willing to employ them.
There are a million aspects to this that I'm not an expert in, but many of the "free market" principles are considered in the context of contrasting a market economy vs. a planned economy.
Free market means people can voluntarily engage in transactions without the government interfering in those transactions, such as when the government sets the price of some good.
The criticism I offer for all “free market” types is this: it is naïve to ask, let alone hope, for government to act as an impartial referee. Government is a player with its own agenda. It always has been and, for as long as it is made up of self-interested human beings, it always will be.
> Because of Guzman, she says, everything is under control — people don't steal, kidnap or extort here. And the partiers say he helped the poor, paved roads, gave people jobs — the list of good deeds goes on.
This is fudging the word "market" a bit. Free market advocates think that everyone should be able to, say, sell paperclips without the government getting involved. Saying that regulation is "part of the market" suggests some kind of misunderstanding of what a free market is.
> it is naïve to ask, let alone hope, for government to act as an impartial referee.
In practice, I agree. It's also naive to hope for the government to faithfully align with almost any political ideology, e.g. progressivism. I don't see that as a flaw of the ideology itself.
I have similar quibbles with other ideologies. Really, my strongest criticism is reserved for ideological purists who come in all shapes and sizes. To put it plainly, I believe all ideologies are reductive and lead to absurdities when broadly applied, particularly to other human beings.
Pragmatism is the approach I prefer. What separates it from an ideology is that it doesn't attempt to cram the world into a tiny box. It's a tool that would work even in an unreliable universe and it affords complex human beings the respect they deserve.
Unfortunately you are not allowed to pick only the good side of the people that supports the feasibility of your chosen ideological utopia.
Yes, the difference is one exists and is bad (like "really existing socialism" existed and was bad), and the other is an unrealistic utopia like communism.
A utopian market without sucker consumers, without business people willing to exploit it and without powerful companies taking advantage of it, and somehow, with less government as well...
Markets are built both on corporations openly trading value to customers for money and competition keeping that system alive and healthy as markets/products/technology/organizations naturally grow and die and economies fluctuate. Stasis and one-sided deals are unsustainable, which is what this type of arrangement buys you.
Corporations being allowed to use state power for their own benefit (at the expense of their customers and/or competition) has nothing to do with free markets. All you're left with then are companies who rake in money from customers without trading full value or excluding competition from existing. That's not a market or a useful system for any society.
Regulations to serve some higher public good that markets can't practically account for are very different from individual corporations writing laws to benefit only themselves in the marketplace. Boeing selling more dangerous airplanes (even if that happens through government coordinated processes) and losing Airline customer's trust would be terrible for any real business, assuming there is competition and customers who aren't forced to buy from them.
The rationale, which apparently seemed quite well-accepted back then, is anachronically explained above by Adam Smith — who I'm sure was well-written in his Ancient studies.
Source please.
Did a rather poor online search, and the closest I came to something on the subject I found[1] is this:
> Of this group, perhaps as few as 100 citizens - the wealthiest, most influential, and the best speakers - dominated the political arena both in front of the assembly and behind the scenes in private conspiratorial political meetings (xynomosiai) and groups (hetaireiai). These groups had to meet secretly because although there was freedom of speech, persistent criticism of individuals and institutions could lead to accusations of conspiring tyranny and so lead to ostracism
Edit: I just read your other fact-checking-yourself comment (currently under this one) and wanted to note that I wasn't trying to beat a dead horse. I appreciate your willingness to accept that your recollection/phrasing was incorrect.
Candidly, while nigh impossible to see things from the eyes of Ancient Greeks, I think the main take away (which may explain my incorrect recollection, as a shortcut/oversimplification) is that their view of democracy accepted 'sentiment' as valid motive, as valid 'reason' for principle and action. Part of such sentiment was suspicion, the sense of "feels right / wrong". It wasn't naive or blind, nor die-hard objective or quantified; the practice of democracy had to feel 'right', ad hoc. (I've read, in other contexts, accounts of suspicion against greed and wealth from this time very comparable to what we hear today; on a number of topics for that matter, like immigration or cultural identity, the words and perceptions of every day people are strikingly similar.)
It seems that human judgment was deemed 'sacred' or 'quintessential' enough for Ancient Greeks that they let it flow freely, though in some specific moments and places, carefully constrained within the whole political framework —remember that the point was less excellence thereof than survival of all.
Also interesting is the 'de-escalating' approach, ostracism has a negative outcome: not to 'empower' the good guys but rather to 'disable' the bad ones. Here lies a very important principle of their democracy: never give too much power to anyone, especially the ones you 'like' (it always backfires against democracy, as it did eventually in the Roman experiment a couple centuries later). Seek the minimum amount of global power required to fulfill the mission, less is more, lower is better. Concentration of power is a threat to the distribution ideal sought by democracy.
Whatever we think of it, the democratic 'experiment' back then lasted some 200 years, under these principles, and I think it's well worth studying if our current regimes are to become more 'direct' in the hyper-connected environment we now find ourselves in.
It wasn't about "rich" so much as perceived to be dangerously influent, my mistake. Note that it was entirely subjective, to be decided by a vote.
The procedure implemented was called "ostracism" and allowed the exclusion of anyone from political affairs for 10 years, simply based on a vote by citizens, without a need for justification whatsoever. Common reasons apparently were "he speaks too well", "craves power too much", "I don't trust him".
Thank you, HN for a quick and efficient fact-check.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89tienne_Chouard
[2]: https://youtu.be/HDg2sIZZi8I?t=2408 (40:08 to ~42:00) Note that the whole is quite interesting from a political science standpoint, again notwithstanding any political opinion (note that the speaker however does not refrain from speaking his).
Found a few comprehensive references to Athenian democracy, including http://www.stoa.org/demos/article_democracy_development@page...
I can't find anything across any source confirming your point, and in fact, it at one point used to be the exact opposite.
That's incorrect. If anything, there were modest property qualifications for some offices (according to Aristotle). The most influential people in Athenian politics tended to be wealthy.
Even worse, there are nearly nobody in public service than can review some topics (that is the reason, they more and more rely on the expertise of consulting companies when it comes to taxation and finance topics -- and the interest of the consulting companies also lies in reducing taxes for their private costumers ...).