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Comment by jakebasile | Hacker News Reader

I've tried Signal many times, but their lack of certain features continues to make it a no go for me. There's still no real multi device support, no tablet support, no Siri support, and no backup cloud or otherwise (switch phones and lose everything!).

I understand that these are complex issues but Signal is competing with iMessage for my usage and it can't win without these.

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I use Signal because the most important thing to me about a messenger is security and privacy. Other features notwithstanding, iMessage simply does not offer the same guarantees as Signal so long as Apple manages encryption keys vs the users themselves, and obviously remains closed source and proprietary. In other words, I would only consider Signal to be a truly end-to-end encrypted application of the two, and that's of utmost value to me.

That makes sense, and I am glad that signal exists for people like you who want what they provide.

For me, iMessage / FaceTime achieve good enough security while also letting me use any of my devices (except my windows machine!), and I don't lose everything if I switch phones. I think that signal could better achieve their goals by making some time for usability work.

There's a backup function. You can set it to run at certain intervals. I included it in my syncthing sync so I have a backup of my whole signal whenever I run syncthing.

I just looked it up, and they say backup isn't possible on iOS.

https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...

Which previously made sense when the file system was basically untouchable by end users. But with files/ios13 it makes no sense at all.

It was "on the roadmap" as of 4 years ago…

https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/905

…but there's been no apparent progress.

On some core usability & functionality matters, Signal appears to be a really, really, lethargic development team, both before and after the arrival in early 2018 of $50 million in funding.

Ah, my bad. It works on Android which is all I've ever used it on.

Signal's purpose is to be secure and private. If these are not primary concerns, it is unlikely that Signal would be the best option for you, as there will always be someone with more money and developers to out-class Signal feature-wise.

Signal's goal has always been claimed to be to bring security to the masses though. My sticking points are not unique to me, but will likely be considered table stakes to compete with the industry titans like Facebook Messenger and iMessage.

Unless Signal's usability matches what the average user expects, nobody will use it, and it will therefore fail at being able to be secure and private.

It takes two parties to install it for it to be beneficial, and so far those I've asked to use it have uninstalled it because of usability.

I use it.

The only people I know complaining about "usability" are very young. People missing custom stickers and stuff like that.

Otherwise I didn't hear about any relevant issues with general users I got to use it.

What usability issues did those you ask have?

I'm guessing you haven't used Telegram, since you believe that only those who miss custom stickers complain about usability on Signal. You should try Telegram for a few months and compare it with Signal. The difference is night and day, especially once you get used to using not exposing your phone number to random people, fast and reliable message delivery, using multiple devices and platforms (including a web browser) with synced conversations, editing messages, using bots for different purposes, etc.

I do have used telegram. It's unfortunately the only way to get in touch with my local openstreetmap community. I didn't see anything there I would miss on my Signal app. I also don't see the phone number thing being an issue as the people I communicate with on Signal do already have my phone number. I also have the Signal Desktop program on my PC. Nothing to be desired there too. Works flawless. Haven't seen a single bot doing something I'd require from an app I use to communicate. What bots would you miss in Signal?

I brought up the stickers issue because this is what I heard in complaints before.

I mean, I'm 33 so being considered "young" is a matter of perspective I suppose.

I don't really care about stickers, but I do care about being able to back up my conversations, being able to use any device I have at hand, and being able to do so with Siri voice activation if I'm driving.

No need to take this personally. I just said what I heard from the people I know and who complained. The rest did not as most of them use Whatsapp and there is nothing they miss in Signal. So saying "Unless Signal's usability matches what the average user expects, nobody will use it" is a matter of perspective I suppose.

btw It looks like the backup problem is something you should blame Apple for https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/905. It works flawlessly on Android. As for your Siri issue, I wouldn't say it's something "the average user expects". I don't know anybody doing what you wanted to do there.

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