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Comment by markbao | Hacker News Reader

Thank you all so much for the awesome support. :) It's been a pretty insane roller coaster of a month, and I'm (unfortunately) starting college again in a few hours.

The interesting part of all this is that it's actually helping me develop my next step. Not in terms of startups, but in terms of life. In other words, is college something I'm sticking with long-term? Or is time of the essence and the need (and my parents' need) for a degree less vital?

Edit: also, how good is the startup community in NYC? I love the city, but not sure about the startup environment.

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If you already are running a startup from your dorm, the main reason to stay in college is to meet women. Honestly, there is no easier venue, and the chance to have a captive audience of thousands of women looking for a boyfriend will never happen again in your life. You should be one of the most ballin' dudes at Bentley.

NYC is the second easiest place in the USA to meet women. It's not as easy as when you're in college. But it's about 100x better than Silicon Valley.

Relationships might seem unimportant when compared to your potential bazillion dollar website, but even the most autistic geeky weirdos want companions - see all of livejournal as evidence. I did startups in SV/SF for 10 years and could count the number of women I worked with on 2 hands. If you're working 12 hours a day, when are you going to meet the other women who aren't working at startups? At the bar, after work. But, you could go to any bar and there would be no women there, either. You end up condemning yourself to a life of near chastity hoping your startup sells so you can maybe attract a mate based on your bank account. That probably won't even work, there are loads of rich dudes in SF/SV who can't get a date.

The NYC startup scene is OK but kind of stupid. There is a lot of dumb money. For example, GroupMe got $10M for a product that took 24 hours to build and has already been built by a dozen other companies over the years. The guys working on it are basically drunks and stoners and guys who follow jam bands around. (Check their twitter history, I'm not just being snide.) I actually think they are cool dudes but I'm just using them as an example that the bar for funding in NYC is way lower compared to SV. The nouveau startup wunderkinds in SF/SV are now all straight-laced type-a achievers who went to Philips Andover, Yale, Stanford, MIT, etc.

(This is actually really weird, cuz it's the opposite of the previous bubble where SV/SF was a bunch of bipolar freaks and dropouts with purple dreadlocks, and you needed to go to Choate and Princeton and wear a suit to get a job in NYC)

I spent about 2 years in NYC hanging out with startups and came to the conclusion that most of them are just "playing startup." The startups that make the most sense there are startups that target the NYC market first, like Gilt and Foursquare and media/blog empire things like Gawker, Tumblr, and DailyBeast. GroupMe works well in NYC, too, as the main activity is to go out at night and you can use it to sync up. So if your plan is to service the NYC market first and then see how it spreads from there, it's not a bad place to be and it should be trivial for you to get funding $$$.

Jared and Steve (founders of GroupMe) are some of the best entrepreneurs I've ever met. Your characterization is ill informed and just plain wrong. The fact that they were able to take a simple idea and implement it so successfully speaks to their ability as operators.

I also don't think quality entrepreneurs base decisions about where to start a company on where it's easiest to get laid. Most quality entrepreneurs that I know have no problem meeting women wherever they are because they are passionate, outgoing, interesting people.

Also, GroupMe's major investor is Khosla Ventures, which is a west coast firm. So I am not sure how that speaks to NYC as a "dumb money" scene.

I call bullshit on you as I know everyone involved. They are great, but can you deny the part about jam bands and a history of drunk tweets by their engineers? There's a whole website about "things X says when he's drunk" where X is the engineer I'm talking about.

If you don't think it's important to get laid, good on you, you've transcended to the next level of hacker zen. If you think it's easy to get laid in Silicon Valley, you are a bartender with a huge dick, not the VP of Product for Whatever.com.

As a New Yorker I am allowed to call bullshit, too.

I also know everyone involved.

As a former New Yorker transplanted to Palo Alto, I can attest that there are less girls here, but I have not had trouble meeting them.

Why is drinking and listening to jam bands reflective of their ability as a company? I can cite many examples of famous entrepreneurs who have well documented episodes of drinking or using drugs. Steve Jobs would be the most obvious.

After thinking about it for a moment, I guess I'm totally wrong. Guys who built an awesome app in 24 hours, then improved it and raised $10M during brief moments of sobriety in between jam band benders... Those guys are superhuman.

Good job on meeting girls in PA. The secret of dating in SV/SF that I wish I knew when I moved there: the women are all in Palo Alto, Pac Heights, and The Marina. That may not be your "type" but it's better to broaden your range than hold out for what you think is your best match. It's not like in NYC where there's a match (or 10) for everyone.

Sadly, I think sometimes my posts come off as mean-spirited. I consider myself sort of a forum comedian who tries to throw some wisdom in while being entertaining. I wasn't trying to disparage GroupMe. I actually like and use their service! On the other hand, I also don't think anything I said is factually inaccurate!

"After thinking about it for a moment, I guess I'm totally wrong."

And yet, your totally wrong and snarky comments above get up-voted. Go figure.

"The secret of dating in SV/SF that I wish I knew when I moved there: the women are all in Palo Alto, Pac Heights, and The Marina."

And you said you were here for 10 years? Based on the amount of real-estate you devoted to talking about getting girls, I'm guessing you're not too good at it. Yes, it's harder to get girls in SF than in NYC, but the people droning on about it are as hopeless in SF as they are anywhere else.

" If you think it's easy to get laid in Silicon Valley, you are a bartender with a huge dick, not the VP of Product for Whatever.com" LOL. This is the best sentence I have read on hackers news by far.

Firstly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with drinking about debauchery in general. I live in SF, work at a Palo Alto startup and attended college in Berkeley and found that entrepreneurship and debauchery went very well together. The startup I work for exited to a Fortune 50 company for a great deal of money, and has a fridge stocked with beer. I drink a lot—and yet still get great work done.

Meeting girls has not really been a problem either. Palo Alto has Stanford, tho its girls tend to be way too smart for me. SF is the world's most promiscuous city (SF State girls are great!), and Berkeley is a huge college town.

You sound like the epitome of a hormonal teenager. I know this was an ad hominem, but seriously is sex more important than doing great work? Really?

Moreover, what happened to love and quality relationships? What I'm getting across from your comment is basically mindless one nighters and the entire getting laid gig. Sure there are some places on earth where it's better to do that, but love, true love, can blossom anywhere you go.

Further, your comment is the most disgusting thing I've ever read on HN. It's crass in all of the wrong ways and it reads like some 14 year old on steroids wrote it. If your self worth is determined by how many women you take to bed then, trust me, you will be a lonely man indeed.

That said I really hope that I misread your comments.

If you already are running a startup from your dorm, the main reason to stay in college is to meet women.

I will freeze that comment in time, it might end up going on HN's tombstone.

I actually found it significantly easier to meet women outside of college. I was a Computer Science major and all I did was go to my classroom with all males and work on my hw/projects with all males. Further, as you get older, you have more and more women you can date.

I have been upvoted for some unknown reason. My point was that such a crass, anti-intellectual comment is what is killing HN.

I have no further interest in discussing what aches the hearts of hormonal youth.

I agree that one of the cool things about HN is the level of discourse, but the idea that geeks must be social luddites should die. There is nothing crass about wanting to meet women in college, nor is it anti-intellectual.

Nothing wrong with it; but saying 4 years of your youth + $100k + all the opportunity to learn and grow is somehow worth wasting just for the sake of meeting "girls" is stupid.

There are women HNers too, but you don't hear them say boys are the highlight of the university experience.

>>> There are women HNers too, but you don't hear them say boys are the highlight of the university experience. <<<

Thank you. It's just shocking to me that no one called him out. The very idea that the central purpose of college is sex, sex and more sex is just disgusting. I'm not a prude by any means, but seriously what is this guy advocating?

I know that this comment really doesn't add much to the conversation, but I just can't help it. This conversation is the last thing I expected on HN, and I haven't been around for that long!

Maybe its my background (non-American by heritage) but most people that I know met their life-long partners in college. It was not a time for serial sex.

Let's face it, companionship is important in life and college has a high concentration of people who are of similar age to you, relatively unattached, and of similar backgrounds or at least passions.

Now, turning to a cynical note---many if not most people think that college is useful as a certification that one can learn, and is intelligent enough to work. A university education is required for a good job. If you already have a job, or money then to this group of people the only reason to attend college is love of learning or socialization.

I love learning, but lets not pretend that socialization is college is non-existent or even an insignificant part of the college experience.

A part of an experience != To the very purpose of an experience

Fair enough. I agree with you that "the main reason to stay in college" should not be to meet women, but I do think it's a valuable benefit of the college experience. Especially in such a male-dominated industry, having females in my social circle is an important consideration.

This might be the funniest comment I've ever read here.

I can't disagree. I've lived in NY for the last few years and I have found it so much harder to find women in SF. Though, I'm sure some people will have contrasting stories.

I agree wholeheartedly with SF being pretty difficult to meet women. I was there for six months and had a hell of a time after leaving college. I've since relocated to Seattle to work - and it's been incredibly easy comparatively.

I can't really posit why that is, besides maybe the depressing rain making finding a mate the only relatively common thing to do here. Or, maybe, the women's standards are way lower. Either way, it's easier.

> NYC is the second easiest place in the USA to meet women.

Out of curiosity, what is #1?

Colleges

"Playing startup." Most apt description I've heard of the New York 'tech' scene yet.

Dude, this is Hacker News.

Please avoid comments like "The guys working on it are basically drunks and stoners and guys who follow jam bands around. "

Not cool, and not helpful to the level of discourse.

There are many conflicting viewpoints on college especially on HN. I took the view that college was an opportunity that while not impossible to be taken at a later stage isn't easy to "go back to" later. College is what you make of it and assuming you've gotten into a half decent school for your vocation you can get a lot out of being embedded with a lot of like minded people for a few years.

College won't exclude you following your entrepreneurial dreams at the same time and you can leverage a lot from the experience.

Good luck!

People on Hacker News make a habit out of calling college a bubble, the Emperor's new clothes, and whatnot ad nauseam.

Disregarding the price tag, everyone tends to agree that the social and networking potential of college is a unique opportunity.

Hey, Mark. Congrats on your recent sale.

re: NYC startup scene

I'm pretty sure that you've been to Hackers and Founders NYC, but if not, they organize via http://twitter.com/hackersfounders . They get together the third Thursday of every month. Also, I've just found out that NYU has a Hackers and Founders door floor. :) If your interested, I can forward the contact info to you.

re: In other words, is college something I'm sticking with long-term? Or is time of the essence and the need (and my parents' need) for a degree less vital?

I'm sure you're going to be in the startup game for the long term. So, thinking about where you're going to want to be in 10 to 15 years, will taking 3 years off for a degree hurt you or help you?

Also think about location. Degrees really don't matter much in Silicon Valley. I'm not so sure about NYC or Boston, however. The culture was very much more "degree centric" out East when I lived outside of Boston.

There is a ton of BS in college. And, frankly, you, in particular don't need college to be an entrepreneur. You might pick up a good bit more about algorithms or data mining or NLP than you would if you're a self taught programmer. But you are going to do very well as an entrepreneur with or without a degree.

But, even with all the BS, I completely enjoyed the time I spent taking fun classes. I always took a huge number of classes that I didn't need, simply because I was curious and wanted to learn. So, I took a ton of philosophy, comparative religions, sociology, psychology, literature, art history, and design classes. Because of that I was exposed to a bunch of ideas that I wouldn't have been exposed to otherwise. And, I think that's made me a much more well rounded person than I would have been otherwise.

But, then, I've been going to college on and off for 17 years, and I still don't have my Bachelor's. I'm sure that your parents wouldn't approve. Mom still reminds me every month that I don't have my bachelor's yet. As the T-shirt said, "I never let University get in the way of a good education"

While venture capital investment is not the ultimate proxy for a city's startup'ness, NYC did just overtake Boston as the #2 for tech VC investment.

http://www.cbinsights.com/blog/venture-capital/new-york-mass...

As an NYC startup entrepreneur myself, I can attest to the fact that the level of optimism is very high as is the level of activity amongst startups, investors, etc. Some say frothy but (1) that's not specific to NYC and (2) people love predicting bubbles as a sport.

Come on down.

Mark, the startup community in NYC is thriving. It's a very exciting time to be in the NY tech scene. It's especially interesting as a CS student. Shoot me an email if you want to chat.

agree with max on this one. i'm at columbia and max is at NYU - i have worked with a bunch of NYC startups and can tell you that both the funding environment and the excitement around startups is second to none. we also have some great schools here if you're thinking of transferring.

Mark, good luck with college and your startups. You will have all your life to be full-time entrepreneur. There will be always opportunities for talented and hardworking people like yourself. What college is going to offer you right now is the view of a parallel world to the one of businesses. Having an additional perspective to things can only help you in the long term.

Good luck with everything you do.

Great work on your recent deal. In terms of your degree, I'd definitely consider sticking it out and finishing. I was in a similar situation, where I wanted to hack code and work on projects that interested me but felt like school was slowing me down. I decided to switch to p/t enrollment and ended up with a (Bentley) degree 6 years later. For me, getting the degree was less about learning and more about completing a personal goal. You also gain some killer networking opportunities in the process.

I'm not really a part of the "startup community" here, but I've had some interaction with it and it seems to be pretty lively. If you're ever in town, shoot me an email/PM -- I'd love to grab lunch or somesuch.

I dropped out of college about the time I turned 20. I don't regret it but I think I did it pretty cavalierly, just sure that going back would not be a big deal. It was quite a lot harder than I expected and, at age 45, I still haven't managed to finish my bachelor's (though I do have an associate's, a Certificate in GIS that is the equivalent of master's level work, and a certificate related to my current job -- still, no bachelor's). I am not sure I ever will finish it. If things pan out, I'm okay with that. But it is something of an annoyance and I have basically been told it hurts me at work. (Which is also okay since I have other plans. I think the path I am heading for is better served by the road I have already traveled than it would have been by a college degree.)

Just saying: If you are considering dropping out with fantasies that going back will be "easy" should you change your mind, don't be so sure about that.

Good luck and congratulations!

To offer another data point, I took off at 20 after 2 years of school.

I returned to school at 22 with a lot more perspective and had a lot more fun. Just graduated too!

For my 22nd birthday,* I got an 8 1/2 pound bouncing baby boy. Complicated the heck out things.

Oh, and congratulations on your graduation.

* (Technically, he was born the day after I turned 22.)

Ah life! Hoping things turned out for the better for you. And thank you.

Congrats Mark! I have no doubt you'll be the next big thing!

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