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Comment by oliverx0 | Hacker News Reader

What majority? In Catalonia less than 50% of people want independence. It just so happens that the minority is louder.

> In Catalonia less than 50% of people want independence.

Citation needed. The main historical request by pro-independence people has always been for a vote to be held on the matter. Spain has always replied that there will never be such vote.

The results of the TRUE/LEGAL/non-SCAM elections are public for anybody to see it. Five millions of people can vote, 2 millions voted independentist parties. Three millions NOT. Is an easy calculus.

The majority of people do not want to lose their EU and spanish status, and they never wanted it.

"TRUE/LEGAL/non-SCAM" elections are not a referendum about independence, whether you like it or not. They are evidence, evidence that doesn't confirm the very strong claim that "less than 50% of people want independence".

According to the latest such election (2019 spanish general elections), we had [1]:

1.626.001 votes for parties clearly supporting independence (ERC + JxCat + Front Republicà)

1.784.129 votes for parties clearly opposing independence (PSOE + Cs + PP)

678.451 votes for parties that claim other issues are more important (UP + PACMA)

The total numbers for/against independence are not clear and could swing either way. We would need either much more skewed results (to extrapolate from them) or an actual vote on the issue to support the claim that was made here.

Note that I haven't made the opposite claim (more than 50% of people want independence). I just said that in the current situation the way to know would be to hold a vote, and that Spain has always opposed this option.

[1] https://www.abc.es/elecciones/elecciones-generales/resultado...

Therefore the data support perfectly the statement that "In Catalonia less than 50% of people want independence". Nobody stopped they to freely vote other options.

But this is a trap, a fake discussion, because the independentist people in Catalonia don't own the place.

The spanish constitution grants rights to all citizens in Spain to share the whole territory, use the public spaces and infrastructures in their benefit, enjoy nature and stablish, work and live peacefully in any point of the nation that they would desire and choose, without being bullied by the local sheriff or politician.

> It just so happens that the minority is louder.

And more aggressive

Catalans did a referendum for independence. The Yes won by 90%. But the referendum was not legal according to the Spanish law. The spanish won't allow a legal referendum because they now there is a majority who want independence.

> Catalans did a referendum for independence.

No, Catalans didn't did a referendum, Catalan Government did on illegal referendum

Again, this "referendum" was a scam designed to have an excuse to push their agenda further. Was totalitarism travestied as democracy carefully designed to steal 47 millions of spaniards from their constitutional rigths

When only people who want independence vote on the referendum, obviously you are going to get such results. If the people opposing independence don't consider the referendum to be legitimate (since you know, it is illegal and against the constitution, and not recognized by the central government), then they are not going to vote on it. And hence the question, why doesn't the Spanish government allow it? Because it is an issue that affects all Spanish citizens, therefore, we should all have a vote on the matter.

Technically correct, but that doesn't tell the whole story as there still seems to be more people that want independence than don't want it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence_movement#... .

The minority is not just louder but more numerous.

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