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Comment by jameskilton | Hacker News Reader

Lets see...

* Still using close to or over a gallon of fossile fuel to make a gallon of ethanol? Check!

* Still less efficient a fuel than straight petroleum products? Check!

* Still uses a FOOD SOURCE to create GAS? Check, double and tripple check.

* Oh and is still a massive source of government spending in subsidies that could easily be diverted to programs that help the populous instead of corn fat cats? Check.

There is literally nothing good about ethanol as a vehicle fuel source. It's disgusting and perverted how much this gets pushed as "the environmentally safe" fuel source.

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One thing worth adding to the list: Iowa caucuses and the fact that the state produces 19% of total corn produced in the country. Check [?|!]

> Still uses a FOOD SOURCE to create GAS? Check, double and tripple (sic) check.

Since corn and soy-based foods are one of the leading causes of obesity, this arguement is moot.

Not to mention it actually costs less to buy a bushel of corn than it does to produce it: corn prices are already severely subsidized by the government. There's simply too much corn out there, and it's one of the main reasons why "junk food" is so junky. If ethanol was being produced from romaine lettuce and turnips, I'd be more alarmed.

For now, it's just one more little subsidy on top of an already massive agribusiness planned economy.

However, ethanol really has no place in fuel. The only benefit to E10 is that you don't need to use Heet in your gas tank in the winter.

> "Since corn and soy-based foods are one of the leading causes of obesity"

In the US, yes. There are many cultures that have been heavily soy-based, for example, for centuries without health issues.

Furthermore, there are even more developing countries on Earth that rely on corn as a staple food. The diversion of corn supplies to create fuel over food is widely regarded as a main cause of the last food price crisis, which impacted poor countries disastrously (compared to the rather mild price hikes seen in this country). There is also the issue of land being used to grow other non-corn food crops being diverted to corn-fuel farming, thus further reducing food production.

If the entire world was just the US, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but we don't exist in a vacuum.

There's a major difference between eating soy products and eating washed soy proteins that are combined with corn to create heavily processed foods. And while soy isn't directly correlated with obesity, it's usefulness as a protein has created additional venues for corn to be used.

Furthermore, corn is generally used on feedlots for beef, and disastrously: beef there contains whacked-out levels of fat types, and is much more fatty overall.

In terms of internationalism: the French, long held as bastions of good eating, are experiencing similar patterns of obesity as per the US in the early '90's as French diets change to fast foods and prepared meals.

Not to mention it actually costs less to buy a bushel of corn than it does to produce it

!... but... but... but that's not a reason to use all that "surplus" cheap corn to make ethanol. It's a reason to stop subsidizing corn.

America's very own corrupt and stupid central planning....actually central planning implies some greater purpose, American ethanol policy is a kind of petit fascism because it is designed to benefit a handful of insider corporations (ADM, etc) at the expense of society at large. If you buy food, drive a car, or raise livestock, your government is screwing you. The impact in the Third World is truly tragic, as American ethanol policy is a significant factor driving the current food crisis.

Change we can believe in, indeed!

It's not a democrat or republican thing, I am very liberal and progressive and I think this ethanol use is a complete scam. So do many others on both sides.

Now if it was made from switchgrass, maybe as much as 5% would not hurt and E85 for specially designed cars would be fine. But ethanol from other sources is years away and the subsidies for corn seem to be as permanent as the lack of gun control in this country.

But they have laws designed for 2020 in effect now, which is asinine.

Oh and it's not just America, E85 is big in Europe too.

This comes from a bill passed in 2007.

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