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Comment by StavrosK | Hacker News Reader

You must not have used many Android phones. The fingerprint scanner has been stellar and instant in every phone I've had, at least until people started switching to this horrible under-display one which is a huge downgrade for no reason.

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Stellar/instant is a poor indicator for how secure it is, ik can be stellar/instant and not secure at all. As is the (gel)case here, I don't know if this ia a Samsung only thing or if this sensor is used in different Android devices as well. Or if this is limited to this sensor only in the first place.

You can ask the same question of face/iris scans, people have and it's quite difficult to replicate, but not impossible. There's a plethora of YouTube videos about this.

I own a Pixel device, which is one of the few Android phones I’ve found that provides details of how it keeps that data secure: https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/6300638?hl=en.

I don't own a Pixel I use a Sony device(Great devices with terrible software). Pixels 3+ are by far the most secure android devices out there.

I recently bought a Samsung watch. It's a solid responsive device with ok software, depending on what you may do in the wearables app it may or may not crash(The watch itself seems to have good battery life and pretty stable). I had an apple watch for a while that I gave my mom and unfortunately I have to say the Samsung device feels like a device with a lot of potential but not quite there yet. A lot of it has to do with the ecosystem. Tizen seems great, but the app store is so-so. The entire samsung login, region, payment, app store experience feels half-baked compared to the experience on a mac/apple device. I've been recently trying to figure out if I should buy a samsung device to access the ToF camera, but the documentation is virtually none existent(it's scheduled to come "eventually")

I somewhat wish they would license their tizen version to other vendors since it's way better than the WatchOS alternative.

I haven't been using mac/iphones in a few years rather than to test stuff, so maybe it really got a lot worse since then. But from what I remember the general experience felt a bit more smooth.

https://www.blog.google/products/pixel/titan-m-makes-pixel-3...

Unless there's been a foundational shakeup, I'd be wary of Tizen. There have been numerous reports of horribly shoddy development practices and massive bugs.

Never used a Samsung myself so I'm just remembering stories.

I'm not at all surprised. The whole meego, tizen whatever development process was a complete mess. But then again android was too. I still think it's unfortunate.

But, you can you elaborate?

Not very well. Months ago I came across a couple of references to egregious security problems and outright horrid development practices, of which I've forgotten 95% of the content and only have the left over sense of "nope, don't ever want to rely on that ever".

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14752446

My Pixel 3a has a fingerprint scanner which works about as often as the literally free promotional phone my carrier thrusted onto me last year. I'm lucky if it works 1/5 times.

TBF I never had any good luck with Apple's TouchID (which most people seem to love) - some of us just have hands that are incompatible with the technology. So while the many for whom it worked flawlessly lamented the loss of it in favor of FaceID, I was cheering.

It's seasonal for me.

Spring and summer, TouchID works flawlessly. Once the air gets dry in the fall and my skin starts to get gross, TouchID struggles. But I guess that's to be expected.

For me it was the opposite - I think it was the humidity in the summer that messed with TouchID

I find that the slightest modicum of oil on my skin is enough to stump my sensor.

I'm in the same boat. I never could get TouchID to work reliably or fast enough. To the point where I never even bothered to have it on. FaceID on the other hand has worked great for me, and only doesn't work if I have a motorcycle helmet or goggles on, which is understandable.

Ok, I feel seen. I had trouble with TouchID on the 5S, upgraded to a 6S, and a 7 and continued to have trouble. It never reliably worked for me. I partially blamed it on oily hands, but my fingertips are fairly scarred as well. As soon as FaceID was revealed, I jumped ship to the X series phones and can't imagine going back. It's crazy how much more reliable FaceID is for me than TouchID ever was.

I'm having the same experience with the 3XL that I recently bought. My 6P that I upgraded from was much more reliable.

My (subjective) experience with my Pixel 3 has been fantastic. I find excellent recognition with all configured fingers.

Well, apparently on this one the fingerprint sensor is also fast with the caveat that it unlocks the phone for everyone when a screen protector is applied.

thats a huge caveat. I think the samsung is the fastest one among all the underscreen fingerprint sensor. But compared to not-underscreen sensor? I agree with above comment. Aside from looking sleek, the underscreen fingerprint sensor has been really underwhelming compared to regular fingerprint one

That's not a caveat. That's a security hole. Anyone could put a piece of plastic between them and the scanner, and if that's all it takes, it was never secure in the first place.

As someone with an iPhone as a personal phone and a Galaxy S8 as a work phone, I can attest to the fact that the fingerprint sensor in the S8 is _absolutely terrible_ compared to Apple's Touch ID.

It routinely misses touches altogether, complains that I'm not covering the sensor even when I am doing (and yet this doesn't seem to bother Touch ID in the slighest) and doesn't seem to have much of a delay between attempts making it very easy to "lock out" the fingerprint sensor and being forced to enter the PIN due to several mismatches in a short space of time.

Also whoever decided to put the fingerprint sensor on the back of the phone should be prevented from designing phones ever again.

   > Also whoever decided to put the fingerprint sensor on the back of the phone should be prevented from designing phones ever again.

Why? My phone has a fingerprint reader on the back, and I quite like it- I don't have to move my fingers much to use it, it's also the lock button, which makes it rather easy to "log in" to the phone.

Just tested it- less than one second to log in via finger, and it works almost all the time. (I've had motor oil on my fingers and it's still worked, not that that's a good idea...)

Also people who suggest serious consequences for failure to abide by a personal opinion should, IMO, stop talking.

The sensor on the back is out of reach when the phone is on a mount, for example the handlebar of my bicycle. I considered activating face recognition but I'll probably use the old phone as navigation device: it's got the sensor on the side. I'm using offline maps anyway and only when cycling for leisure. I'll keep my main phone in my pocket (in airplane mode, I don't want to be disturbed.)

Depending on how it's mounted...I can unlock my S8 reaching over the top of the phone where my finger is basically upside down.

I hope it means that Samsung compares the data on the whole sensor, and not that anyone can unlock it :)

Right but in my case the mount completely covers the sensor. Samsung A40 and Topeak mount. The other phone is a Sony Xperia X Compact. Maybe the Samsung is too thin to have the sensor on the side.

The fingerprint sensor on the back of the phone is something I like so much I will avoid upgrading to a device that has it anywhere else (I fear I may be using my Pixel 3 for a very long time). I think it's a genius spot for it. It's right where my finger naturally falls as I'm bringing my phone out of my pocket, so it's unlocked before my eyes ever got the screen.

Trying to use a phone with the sensor on the back just showed me how often I'm unlocking my phone while it's laying on a surface or how I always pinch the phone out of my pocket by the chin because that's all the room I have with pants that fit. Also, I can't access it when it's mounted on my bike which is such a serious showstopper I don't know how it made it out of the brainstorming phase.

I found it to be the worst place to put it.

with how big phones are these days I find it very annoying to have the lock button so far from the unlock button. i vastly prefer the scanner/unlock/lock button on the back.

There are good arguments for the sensor to be on either side of the phone (or ON the side). I have a phone with the sensor on the back, and while it is inconvenient when I am doing a quick check or it is in a mount (rare), it is a more natural place when you are actually picking up the phone.

Hmm, I definitely disagree based on my experiences. I think the lack of timeout with a limit on attempts is far nicer, it works reliably for me in nearly every case except sometimes in the winter (which affects other fingerprint sensors I've tried as well), and the position on the back is ideal for me in almost every position I use the phone. I can easily pull it out of my pocket and activate it one-handed without feeling like I'm holding my phone precariously.

You must have had better luck than me.

- Xiaomi Redmi Note 4 - pretty good finger print scanner on the back

- Samsung Galaxy S8 - absolutely terrible fingerprint scanner that was so bad I switched to pin after a while

- Samsung Galaxy S10 - new fingerprint scanner under display, works most of the time but still unreliable, also it is not the quickest.

You would have thought that leading brand (Samsung) would have decent fingerprint scanners on their flagships, but it is just not the case.

The thing with bad fingerprint scanners is that you cant rely on them, so I rather choose reliable slower 3s unlock with pin than unreliable maybe faster 1-10s unlock with fingerprint.

My LG V20's fingerprint reader works quite well, and is rather fast. It's also a couple years old, but still zippy.

3 seconds?!

Click the lock button, swipe up, enter the pin. Seems to be about 3s?

Yeah, all my phones have been Xiaomis where the scanner is fantastic. The latest one, the 9T, has an in-display scanner, and you're spot on. It's usually okay, but sometimes gives me trouble, and this burstiness is what irritates me to no end.

On my S8 I never used the rear fingerprint scanner. It was so unweildy and poorly placed that it was quicker and easier to enter my pin.

They also touted "face recognition" but it was a poorly-made piece of software that used a conventional camera (no depth) and was just a marketing check-off item, and not a real feature.

On my S9 they seem to have hit the sweet spot -- there's little to complain about.

> until people started switching to this horrible under-display one which is a huge downgrade for no reason.

That's certainly a matter of opinion, and is not a "huge downgrade for no reason". I prefer my fingerprint scanners on the front, and I know others do as well.

I guess it is a matter of opinion. I prefer mine to work.

Front one would be better of course, but only if it worked. As it is on S10 scanner is complete garbage, even with all the patches they keep making.

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