Hiren’s BootCD Based on Windows 10 PE X64 | Hacker News Reader

Hiren’s BootCD Based on Windows 10 PE X64

hirensbootcd.org

238 pointsaspenmayer84 comments

there is a lot of WinPE interest in the thread. I was part of the core team that came up with the idea and built it[0] and it is great to see how useful it has been for so many!

I'm happy to answer questions if folks are interested.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Preinstallation_Enviro...

Given that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BartPE exists and can also create a "portable Windows" from the original files of an installation media for a normal version of Windows, is it possible to manually create one's own WinPE in the same way? i.e. is WinPE composed of only the same files that can be found on the installation disc, arranged in the right structure, or is there something more to it?

the tools needed to create WinPE - that shipped in the OEM preinstallation kits (OPK) - did do some work against the original files to make the magic happen. it was mainly around the special registry dB needed to get it to boot, not changing the files themselves. we also did a ton to try to slim it down, originally to get it to fit on a CDROM or RIS/PXE boot. well before USB sticks got larger than CDROMs.

As a long time user of various WinPE-based liveCDs for system recovery and diagnostics: thanks, my job would have been difficult or impossible without you!

Wow great to see it updated.

This is what got me into IT when I was 15, many years ago.

The fact that I had a private windows environment on a USB drive awed my friends.

Happy to see it resurrected.

Funny to remember 15 years ago getting into tech by fixing people’s computers with a literal WinXP Hiren’s boot CD loaded with avast and other spyware removal tools. Fitting your toolbelt to 650mb was hard!

Pros

- modern Windows 10 PE (original Hiren's was Windows XP based Windows PE)

- supports UEFI (original was Legacy boot only)

- freeware (no pirated content)

- USB/DVD bootable

Cons

- UEFI only

- 64-bit only

Edit: formatting

Included tools list on download page: https://www.hirensbootcd.org/download/

> Cons: 64-bit only

I mean, when was the last time 32 bit CPUs were sold? In 2009 I bought a basic very cheap computer. It still had 64 bit.

And, the old versions of Hiren's Boot CD are still available for download[1], which are 32bit...

[1] https://www.hirensbootcd.org/old-versions/

There are people out there who refuse to upgrade their old “enterprise” software and are forced to run 32 bit OSes or old hardware. It all helps.

In my lab we have a perpetual license of an expensive scientific software... that is sadly 32 bits only. So we keep a 32 bit PC just for that.

You can run x86 code on an AMD64/x86-64 CPU.

So I got downvoted because people know about compatibility support in CPUs? Like you’re telling me something I don’t know? Lol

I downvoted you too, for whinging and not addressing other peoples' arguments.

I’m not whining. I stated a case to be glad about having legacy options hanging around. You’re reading intonation into my words that isn’t there. Stop it, please.

Here’s an upvote to try and push this a positive direction against the momentum.

Would you please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the HN guidelines.

Comments about voting are highly discouraged.

Additionally voting is not about your feelings, or even whether you agree with the person. Everyone should vote based on what is relevant to the conversation.

Anything not relevant to the topic at hand should be downvoted. It's not a personal attack, it's a way to clean up the thread to prevent people from reading irrelevant posts that don't add anything to the discussion.

That's rather unusual. 64 bit OSes run 32 bit software. Usually a lack of support comes from the software being legacy software, not so much being 32 bit.

You may already know this, but often times Wine tends to be a better option than running an insecure OS. Wine is more compatible with 32bit Windows software (and old windows software) than Windows is.

Apple just released Catalina, which no longer runs 32-bit apps.

And Microsoft just announced the SurfaceX, which runs ARM and x86 apps, but not x64.

I wonder if 64 bit only means that it will only work on 64bit hardware, or if it means that and additionally adds the inability to run 32 bit binaries. If you can't run 32 bit binaries on it then that means things like steam and many games wont work properly.... Not that this OS is really designed for gaming....

WinPE 10.0, the base OS of this, does not include WoW64, so it will not run Windows binaries compiled for the x86 architecture.

Using this software for gaming or similar purposes would be a violation of the Windows PE license agreement.

I have a similar Windows 10 PE BootCD / USB / PXE, built from scripts from GitHub (https://github.com/VulpesSARL/MiniNT5-Tools) which includes WoW64, that allows to run 32 Bit executables.

Intel was selling 32bit only Atom CPUs for netbooks up until 2010. I assume these netbooks were still sold until at least 2011.

I was shocked when I realized that my raspi3 outperformed my mini10v (1.6GHz Atom netbook) in a trivial bzip2 benchmark: https://gist.github.com/cellularmitosis/d0b511abc9d0d7a2d80e...

I have some old PowerEdge 2650 servers that are 32 bit. Old, but useful.

Oh man, those things are beasts! I had some 2550s, one 2650, and some 2850s. Somewhere around 2G of memory if I recall (this was 2002 - 2008)

Not really very useful, replacing them with something that is significantly more powerful and uses 1/4th the power (or less) would quickly pay for itself.

Which is why old servers on ebay go for very cheap.

This mentality is why many beautiful 80s home computers were tossed back in the day. They have aesthetic and cultural value that will be recognized one day.

80s computers still wouldn't be worth much of anything if 99% of them didn't get recycled.

I don't think there is anything beautiful, interesting or unique about a couple of million outdated generic x86 2U servers, nor will there really ever be.

I felt this way about some of my early “generic” x86 systems and threw them out. Now I feel like an idiot because I’d love to fire up my old 486 again.

I don't think many people are ever gonna feel nostalgic about firing up their 48 server rack and paying a $1000 power bill.

Also Intels Atom used by many tablets from the Windows 8 days has 32 bit EFI limiting Windows to only be 32bit. For example - Dell Venue 8 Pro, Lenovo Miix and many others

Intel released 32 bit Atoms in 2012. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/70105/i...

I believe the lower-level access mode of Victoria HDD only works on 32-bit Windows. This was one reason I specifically sought out a 32-bit version of Hiren's Boot CD.

Some Windows 10 tablets with Atom CPUs (until 2016)

Actually original Hiren's boot CD was DOS-based.

At my last job I had a Hiren's CD that I used frequently... to boot up Parted Magic on certain hardware.

Doesn't look like that's included anymore, but this wouldn't run on that old hardware anyway.

These days you have the Ubuntu live-dvd/usb image with Gparted to cover those needs.

Parted Magic has really not kept well up.

Do you know of a good Linux live DVD/USB for securely erasing SSDs (both SATA and NVMe)? Parted Magic includes a nice app for doing this [1]. Although it is just a front end for hdparm, nvme-cli [2], nwipe etc. I haven't found an alternative that is as quick and easy to use.

[1] https://partedmagic.com/secure-erase/

[2] http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/secure-erase-hdds-ss...

64 bit cpu. Which is the case for basically every computer made in the last 10 years, even if it's running a 32 bit OS.

Wow I haven't thought of Hiren's in over a decade. I used to use it daily back in my desktop support days working with XP. Very interesting to see a new version.

This does not contain goldmemory. I'm not sure when that stopped being part of it. I accidentally discovered (due to it being on hirens) that it finds faulty dimms very effectively. The same dimms will run memtest faultlessly but non the less cause a bsod. So i suppose im a fan of that software! It actually helped me alot, many eons ago i would build alot of machines for networks, and in trying to determine the cause of bsod or restarts i eventually discovered it was always purely ram at fault.

Haven't used these tools in a long time but (WinPE 10-8 Sergei Strelec (x86/x64) 2019.10.02 4.1GB) is a good alternative since Hiren removed all the "full software". Also there was an Hiren's BootCD Reloaded somewhere.

That said, all the legal software is usually good enough for any need.

Medicat or Stergei Strelec for the win. Hiren's is nothing with all the real software stripped out. Load up Strelec's and see if the amount of software on there isn't amazing.

To be clear "real software" means "pirated" right?

I appreciate what they are doing, however I think some of the best utilities were the grayware semi-proprietary utilities that Hirens had all in one place.

As a Linux user would this be an option for installing Bios and Intel ME updates on machines with Windows only tools available? Or is Windows-To-Go still a safer option?

Very curious about this exact question! I've got a Dell XPS 13 that I put Mint onto and the only way to get it to play nice with a dell WD16 triple-monitor dock is to update the BIOS and things of that nature. I did so on another XPS 13 I have (which still has Windows on it because it only has 4GB of RAM) and that sorted things right out. fingers crossed

Which XPS13 do you have? You can update firmware from linux with fwupd, going back as far as the 9350 model.

https://fwupd.org

9350 or 9360 I think. Still have USB A ports. This is great news! Hopefully I'll be able to get things going thataway.

I think the firmware on those models can just load the Windows firmware update executable. Save it to your ESP or a USB flash drive and try to select it in the firmware update menu.

This will work just as well and is much less complicated than WtG. WinPE has actually been around since the days of Windows XP. I always like to have a WtG USB around in case I need to run some Windows apps and persist there data after reboot, but this should be just fine for a one-off update.

Someone help me understand how they're delivering

1) Windows 10

2) Driver support

3) Obviously MS branded

..yet free and legal?

As I understand it you're generally allowed to redistribute modified versions of Windows PE that are intended for its allowed use case of system installation, recovery, and configuration. It is common for backup software (ex Macrium Reflect) to include "recovery disk creators" that bundle WinPE with the backup software and drivers.

> allowed to redistribute [..] use case of [..] recovery

Fair. That would appear to answer the question. Thanks.

No, not any more - the PE licensing changed to only allow this if the PE image is created by the same user. Tools like Macrium now download the WADK SDK and generate an image at runtime.

Distributing prebuilt images like this violates the current PE license AFAICT.

Because of licensing issues like the above: I've a lighter version of the program like this (also based on Windows 10 PE) - called "MiniNT" (https://github.com/VulpesSARL/MiniNT5-Tools), and is fully open source, including the scripts to build the ISO (and other images) from scratch. Is supported in both 32 and 64 Bit editions. The 64 bit edition also can execute 32 Bit executables. It also can boot from USB, CD-ROM as well PXE Network.

Nope. I worked in this industry for a long time (still do) and we had to report to Microsoft every month how many copies we sold and pay them for it.

Then towards the end of the Ballmer days it was decided that program would be ended entirely and it would be illegal to ever redistribute WinPE, and that is still the case today.

Maybe I’ll write about the crazy stories I have from when that decision was made someday. Two weeks to port a WinPE application to Linux, getting approached by ISVs worldwide who had the rug pulled out from under them for some sort of transition help.. fun times!

I tried to use the old hirens about 5 years ago and it was too out of date. Glad to see its still chugging along.

I just used Hiren’s this past weekend!

I fubar’d MBR after trying to clone my main drive onto an new SSD.

10/10 would recommend

Very handy when you need to break people back into their own PCs. Ntpasswd wasn't working on some newer UEFI based installs, but Hiren's has been solid.

How useful is Windows Boot CD is? I used to care about them a lot, but for the last decade or so, Linux + DOS (for f/w updates) was all that I needed.

I use it alot especially when dealing with a server manufacturer that won't accept my Linux/FreeBSD diagnostics and I'm trying to get an RMA.

Or worse, they have a custom tool that they want you to run to generate diagnostic reports.

I once had the joy of being forced to verify a failed HP drive via some Windows only diagnostic tool. Despite the drive being HP supplied in an HP SAN. Refused to even consider an RMA without the diagnostic tool output though.

When Windblows decides to kill itself in various ways is very useful. I used it to run checkdisk when windows crashed and then booted normally without any disk check. It has a lot of utilities that are very helpful when something goes wrong.

> How useful is Windows Boot CD is?

Very if you're doing Windows desktop/workstation support.

Hiren's isn't just a PE, it includes a ton of useful utilities that help you repair, troubleshoot or fix a number of problems. The full list of utilities is here[1], but includes:

- BCD/MBR Tools

- Data Recovery

- Defrag

- Hard Drive Diagnostics

- Hard Drive Imaging/Cloning

- File Explorers

- Partition Repair

- Low Level Formatting/Data Destruction

- Windows Recovery

- Virus/Malware Scanners

- Key Finders (office, windows, etc)

- Password reset/recovery

- System Registry Repair

- And more...

[1] https://www.hirensbootcd.org/download/

Except that a lot of the stuff on Hiren's is pirated. You probably don't even have a license to run the version of Windows that is on it.

Latest release does not include pirated content. Including the OS:

"Windows PE does not include any Windows license keys. Also Hiren’s BootCD PE does not violate Windows PE purposes and it does not change “72 hours of continuous use” limitation. So using Windows PE in Hiren’s BootCD PE is legal in the terms of Microsoft’s usage purposes."

The 72 hour clause is to qualify for the special WinPE licensing (vs having to license as regular Windows), it does not mean Windows PE itself doesn’t need to be licensed.

Pirated content hasn't been on Hiren's since version 10.6... which was close to 10 (or more) years ago.

Everything on Hiren's is Free and/or Open Source.

I used a portable windows stick from work to activate some games for steam when I bought my vega 64 card. The games work just fine in proton under steam for linux but I had to activate the amd promotion in windows for some reason.

Great! I'll finally be able to update my SSD firmware as Linux is my main and only OS.

Would be cool if a respected publication could vet this for malware.

Whats the joke I'm missing here?

If it could even be called a joke, it's the fact that security paranoia has made people today far more likely to blindly trust something from an anti-freedom centralised walled garden (despite them often containing malware too) than a community of inteligent long-time users.

It wasn’t actually a joke. The group that made this thing is completely anonymous and they have appropriated a respected name to get attention for their thing. So I want it vetted before I’ll rely on it for anything.

Gonna guess you’re new to the industry. Hiren has been trusted for two decades.

This thing isn't by Hiren. It's by “fans” of Hiren. If Hiren had anything at all to do with it I wouldn’t have said anything. The fact that a totally anonymous group is appropriating Hiren’s name means I won’t be touching this thing with a ten-foot pole until someone has vetted it.

Will this run Office? Looking for the smallest footprint to run windows office.

That’s not what it’s for. Sure it could, but using a USB drive as your program space is gonna be a bad time

Why not wine?

Microsoft should go down the SyaInternals route and aqui-hire Hiren’s distro. I mean, why not?

I doubt Microsoft wants to toy with all those licenses from all those 3rd party products.

Microsoft DART works perfectly fine actually.

It is a nice tool, however it may not serve certain scenarios. Windows 10 based Boot CD will take too much memory, and if there is problem in memory module, the CD wont boot. Back in 99, I had a PC with multiple SD RAM module. One of RAM module was damaged. Any boot software requiring high memory would not boot on this machine. I was able to boot it with barebone image containing memtestx86 only, and identify the bad SD RAM module. Removing the bad module fixed the PC.

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