2 in 5 Canadians quit their jobs because of bad bosses | Hacker News Reader

2 in 5 Canadians quit their jobs because of bad bosses

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It's kind of well-known universal truth in HR/management research - when hiring, various "whole-employer" factors dominate, but at employee retention/quitting the largest single factor is the line manager/direct supervisor; people join companies but quit bosses.

How many people actually think they have a good boss?

I have a great boss: nobody.

Our company has a very flat structure, so sure we have product managers that tell me what to do, but in no way are they my boss.

This works better than any other org structure I've been a part of in the past.

How does that work? What happens if you say "no" to them? And who fires who in such structure?

Well, they said "very flat", not "entirely flat". I'm willing to bet that his/her company does have some supervisory or managerial roles, but very few, with most employees on the same "level", per se.

Not OP, but at my job, managers are fairly hands off.

> What happens if you say "no" to them?

It's not adversarial, it's a meeting of the minds to ensure we deliver the best product to our customer.

> who fires who in such structure

Termination is usually Director-level call, Managers are mostly for other HR items.

This is exactly how it works at my company. Everyone has equal say in what we ship. Everyone is equally responsible for the quality of the product we make. If you notice an issue, no matter what your job title is, it's your responsibility to bring it up so the correct person can work on and fix it.

I have definitely thought this at some jobs.

I have a good boss. I know I do, not just think it. Did you phrase your question with the implication that many who think they have a good boss actually don't? or am I reading too much into your word choice

I have had multiple great bosses, a few meh ones, and a few ones bad enough I quit.

Good bosses were involved, communicative, and supportive. Bad bosses were absent and/or acted like obstacles.

My direct manager is very good but above him things are increasingly dysfunctional and detached from reality so in the end it’s slowly becoming pretty bad working here.

100% agree with this. Built our startup around this concept. Most managers have no idea how to be "good" and receive no training... largely stumbling through using trial and error on their direct reports.

When you say you built it around that concept, what steps did you take? Required readings? Aptitude tests? Courses and training? Rapid and unexplained firings?

Many times, it's also because of the conditions the managers are in due to the business cycle the business is in.

When business is good, and projected increases in various metrics are being met, everyone is fine. Then once the metrics start falling short of projections, changes start happening from the top down to meet the metrics, which usually involves cutting costs. This is when life starts becoming worse for employees. Then, if the business survives, projections start being met again due to being more conservative with projections or the business environment improves. As long as the metrics are being met, all the bosses are happy, and life gets better. Then the projections go too far again, and rinse, repeat.

I don't think you can train people to be good managers (in this respect). There's a personality type and either they fit or they don't. By the time you've gotten them that personality has already been established.

it's more about throwing the fish back in the water until you find the right one.

True for me at every job I've quit. Just quit my job last week.

Unemployment sucks but I was miserable.

“Employees leave managers, not companies”. I think this is well understood, however, why isn’t that logic applied to hiring?

Even for startups, my experience points to early employees joining founders that they like or have worked closely with before. The actual problem they are solving usually is in the top 3, but not the #1 reason.

The manager and team I'm joining, as well as general team/company culture have a massive affect on whether or not I accept a position. Company matters of course but I've also joined potentially problematic companies because I felt good about the team and not regretted the decision.

I've applied this to hiring as an interviewee.

Some places I've interviewed at ... would not have worked out. Sometimes you are happy for a "no".

Actual article linked from the tweet: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bad-bosses-survey-1.5313294

The research linked from the linked article: https://www.roberthalf.ca/en/two-in-five-workers-in-canada-h...

According to that page, the data is drawn from an online survey of 400 office workers aged 18 and older.

My boss is so kind and great. I'm almost bored though, my boss is so busy I dont have tasks delegated to me and there's very little pressure. How does a non self starter thrive with a busy boss?

I think self starting is much less a trait and much more a skill, the kind you learn by doing, starting at whatever skill level you are.

Maybe the first thing to do would be researching new ways you can contribute, typing up a brief summary, proposing them to your boss? A kind boss is likely to appreciate the thought anyway.

You approach your busy boss with what you just said and ask for more work or tasks or you work out a system to get more work or tasks. A busy boss might really like having someone they can just toss work to. However, be warned, you might find yourself with tasks outside of what you usually do, but that is part of the adventure and challenge.

The problem is how people get into this position “boss”. There might be, that one guy gets promoted, then department is growing and first guy makes his old buddy to a manager. He’s loyal and that’s good, but this new manager isn’t able to manage anything. There is also situation when owner of a small company retires and leaves his company to the kids. Horror for employees is about to start. There are no perfect bosses, that’s clear. But it’s time to leave when you see after couple years, that your boss is a real nutjob.

40% of Canadians or 40% of Canadians who quit jobs?

40% of office workers.

40% of respondents to the survey.

3 in 5 Canadians continue to work with bad bosses.

At least in my working life, I have realize nobody actually thinks they are a bad boss. Even when presented with evidence that they might be causing a project to steer off course, most bosses I have seen just continue to act the same way. And when things don't get done, its always the employees fault.. no wonder people leave.

40% seems unusual, right?

Does Canada have unusually bad bosses?

Or is it that Canadians feel secure enough in their ability to find new jobs, that they don't hesitate to leave a bad one?

Could be somewhere in the middle, but my guess is that the truth lies closer to the second option.

Describes my situation exactly :-)

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