Is it not super confusing for gender neutral to use the 'they' pronoun? It's already in use in the English language. Every time I've heard people try to use it in conversation it's sounded like an Abbott and Costello routine.
Is it not super confusing for gender neutral to use the 'they' pronoun? It's already in use in the English language. Every time I've heard people try to use it in conversation it's sounded like an Abbott and Costello routine.
I find it pretty easy to use "they" when the gender is unknown, which fits a lot of writing online.
I find it much, much more difficult to remember to call my friend's partner, who looks in every way to me very feminine, and has an unambiguously feminine name, "they" rather than "she".
To quote from the OED's definition of "they":
"2. In anaphoric reference to a singular noun or pronoun of undetermined gender: he or she."
OK, it certainly recognises a singular usage...
"Especially in relation to a noun phrase involving one of the indefinite determiners or pronouns any, each, every, no, some, anybody, anyone, etc."
Aha - so this usage is not (historically, at least) equally well established for all contexts.
Indeed, the entry goes on to note that:
"This use has sometimes been considered erroneous."
So it's hardly surprising if some people feel a bit uncomfortable being told they should be embracing it more widely.
But it's not that hard of a transition to make either. It might seem awkward for a bit, but it settles in pretty quickly.
And certainly less confusing than words that are spelled the same but have wildly different meanings depending on pronunciation (read, past tense meaning to have finished reading a section of text, or read, future/present tense meaning has not finished reading a section of text).
Bob is gender neutral. Uses the 'they' pronoun. In a conversation with people, instead of saying "Bob helped me out with this problem", someone says "They helped me out with this problem", referring to Bob, and no one, including Bob, has any idea who they are referring to.
Pronouns in any form will make a conversation more confusing if there's no context. If you want to be absolutely clear in your communications, you'd get rid of all pronouns completely. "I talked with Bob. Bob helped me out with this problem. I want to thank Bob for Bob's help. Bob can we talk after this meeting?"
The only recent change is people expressing a desire to use they/them as their own forms of address, but this isn’t an invalid use.
I've seen a recommendation that we should use "on another hand" instead of "on the other hand". Because, you know, we should avoid seeing things as black and white. I agree. Things often have more than 2 sides.
My English teacher said "on another hand" wasn't acceptable. You might be deducted point in a situation like TOEFL exam.
Another example is "I ain't" in some other dialects. We don't want to discriminate against certain groups. But, at the same time, it's wrong to use those phrases :S
Using a singular "they" is on a different level of being problematic. You don't wanna look illiterate in a situation like TOEFL exam and some other official situation. On another hand, you don't want to be publicly shamed and ganged up for misgendering others.
The references to "on another hand" I've found have been mostly historical (e.g., a Senate speech from 1830) and/or discussions whether it is correct. I can't find anyone advocating its use.
We weren't taught that singular "they" was acceptable.
This would mean my whole country (I'm from SEA) was taught the wrong thing.
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I've googled a little. For example, this article recommends we avoid using singular "they" (https://www.compellingconversations.com/is-singular-they-ok-...).
Quote:
"Context clearly matters. If you are training English students for the TOEFL or IELTS exams, you should emphasize that using “they” for a singular pronoun will cost students points. Hence, it must be avoided on standardized exams. Yet – like many American advertisers and recent Presidents (Obama, Trump, Clinton) – I find the use comfortable and legitimate."
TOEFL/IELTS really needs to publish official guidelines on these new words.
That said, it used to be rather uncommon in more recent times, which is now changing again. Standardized tests currently consider its use a mistake, just as »[i]n the 1600s, some writers objected to the use of "singular you" (compare objections to the "singular they")« (wiktionary). Languages constantly evolve.
What I have problems with is:
1. We publicly shame people for not use the new word. Calling them names like bigots.
2. Your authority thinks the new word is wrong.
It just seems, at this point, you should scream at your authorities to support singular "they" officially. Here they are: https://www.ets.org/about/who/leadership/
Instead, we spend energy and effort publicly shaming random people.
Many EFL curriculums in foreign countries are out of date, because languages change all the time.
If TOEFL or whatever says otherwise, they are wrong and out of date. Not that anyone seriously thinks those standardized tests actually reflect any meaningful grasp of a language.
Anyway. "They" is perfectly fine as a gender neutral, singular or plural pronoun. Anyone that says otherwise is clinging to prescriptivism and is in denial.
[0]: https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they...
The real issue is: TOEFL actively punishes people for using singular "they".
But we also tell everyone to use singular "they". If they don't, they will face a heavy backlash (e.g. being called bigots).
Here are the people we should be screaming at: https://www.ets.org/about/who/leadership/
English doesn't really have an entity that dictates "rules". The guidelines vary between dialects, so I can only speak about American English...
You can read the Oxford Style Manual or The Chicago Manual of Style for reference, but sometimes people disagree. Previously people looked at Strunk & White's Elements of Style, etc.
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On this particular issue, "they" is fine as singular, and is being used like that very frequently these days.
I agree with you.
However, TOEFL is the gatekeeper for applying to a US/UK university. They have real power to punish you for using what they think is wrong, in this case singular "they" is wrong for them.
We study English to take TOEFL exam, so we can get into great universities.
At this point, we need to balance between being punished at TOEFL exam or being punished by public shaming.
TOEFL could have just published a blog post saying that singular "they" is acceptable. It probably takes 2 minutes to do so.
Yet they don't, even though singular "they" has been used for decades (as many comments point out).
It's dumb, and that's why I suggest we scream at TOEFL's leadership instead.
While you think a singular "they" is correct, one of your authorities (TOEFL) who gatekeeps prestige US universities doesn't agree with you.
Many (including me) don't care what you think (not in a bad way). You aren't authority who can punish us.
We want (1) great points on TOEFL (to get into various opportunities) and (2) to avoid hurting others (i.e. misgendering). This configuration is impossible at the moment.
I hope you don't suggest that we can misgender people as long as it's a TOEFL exam. It doesnt sound ok.
Wait, that doesn't happen. At all.
This is non-issue.
> Wait, that doesn't happen. At all.
Absolutist + so much exaggeration, and it seems more like you are arguing in bad faith.
That's why nobody wants to talk about the usage of the singular "they". We can't even point out that your English authority doesn't agree with you.
> This is non-issue.
It's a non-issue to you because you aren't the students who are rejected by universities because of low TOEFL score.
That is likely because 'on the other hand' is what is known as an idiom; a fixed saying. Even if some people are advocating for change of certain idioms, as a (second language) student of a language you are ill-advised to take the liberty of promoting such a novel phrasing, because people may find it hard to tell if you are making a mistake (and that they should adjust their language to your perceived level) or are in fact advocating a different way of saying things.
When taking an exam you are of course expected to use only language that is currently seen as obviously correct, because the examiner cannot tell the difference either.
> "on another hand"
This seems silly. You use on the other hand to contrast two viewpoints. There are other idioms for enumerating more than two.
I remember (from a psychology book, actually) that the reasoning is: what you say impacts what you think.
You want to compare two viewpoints. But you arrogantly think that these are the only 2 viewpoints that can possibly exist.
If you keep using "on the other hand", you will be inclined to see things as black and white.
It's a valid argument, though one might wonder how much wording impacts our internal mind.
I sometimes find myself using "on the other hand" to contrast three or more view points, and end up saying "on the other hand" twice. Occasionally, I'll use "on one hand...on the other hand...on another hand/on a third hand".
http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/O/on-the-gripping-hand....
I am non-native as well, but my native language doesn't have gendered pronouns. To me, using singular "they" is actually easier as it is closer to how I speak and think in my native language. The normal English (as well as most other Indo-European languages) way of using she or he, always meant I have to stop a bit to think, to add this extra bit of information I wouldn't have to if I were speaking in my native language.
Let's imagine a language that doesn't have a word for red, but has "wine" for darker shades of red and "rose" for brighter shades of red. You just can't talk about "red" in general, you always have to specify if you're meaning the darker or the brighter kind. That's a bit how I feel always needing to specify she or he.