Ask HN: Finding a job as a software developer without having a degree?

I initially wrote a whole bunch of words... but people vary wildly. Circumstances are different.

In my own experience I made the "world" of finding a job very small and personable. I got interested in a niche language, found the local community for language and met the other developers and business owners.

In that time I've worked with others, often remotely, that are also a part of this same programming community. It would appear to me they took a similar approach to what I had done but they did it online.

I would find programming communities that value individuals and are in need of qualified candidates. PHP/Python/Java might not be that community.

Are you certain it's the lack of degree that's been the problem?

I'm running a tech recruitment startup (https://www.toughbyte.com/) and am based in Helsinki, with many of our clients here. In my experience working on over a hundred positions, a relevant degree is rarely a must. Many companies mention a degree on the job ad, but are still open to interviewing candidates without one. In fact, given that many people in Finland start working alongside their studies and don't complete their degrees, the number of developers without a degree might be higher than elsewhere. At Toughbyte, we have even managed to relocate candidates without any degree to Helsinki from outside the EU.

I'd be happy to give you some feedback and advice, and maybe even suggest some companies to apply to, so feel free to drop me a line at oleg@toughbyte.com. As it happens, I'll also be running a workshop on how to find the ideal job as a developer at the School of Startups at Maria 01 at 3pm today, so we could also talk there in person.

Sounds like you’re between a rock and a hard place if the Finnish economy isn’t robust enough to support software workers without degrees and you can’t afford to move.

I know nothing about Finland but it sounds like you might need to get any job you can for the moment (development or otherwise) and save towards moving to the UK or the US (my personal bias).

Maybe the market for web developers in your region isn't strong? If employers can't find workers with their ideal list of qualifications, then they'll cast a wider net. You might not be much better off in that market even with a degree.

Going remote opens your options, but you have far more competition.

The hustler method is to hit the streets and get to know people. Find out what problems people are trying to solve and what sort of help they need. Find places you might like to work and figure out how to talk to people there. Hit social networks such as Twitter and LinkedIn. You'll need to get creative. People are going to be much more likely to find a spot for you if you're talking to them rather than firing off applications.

And are web developers considered IT? Is PHP a fit for a company which has an IT department? You might need to find a smaller, scrappier place to work.

My entire career (since 1999) I've never had a CS degree. When I did contract work it's never really been a hurdle for me. The longest I've ever gone without work was maybe 2-3 weeks. (and honestly, in the entire time, I've maybe spent a month or so on the bench)

Markets like Upwork and Freelancer are not-so-great options, but there's work there. Codementor is a great place to find work, of various nature (mentoring calls, small freelance projects, and bigger ones).

In my experience, startups care very little about what degree you earned, whereas more "traditional" institutions care far more. I would advise you to focus on networking and job searching within communities that have well-funded startups, or young companies in industries that haven't matured yet.

The landscape of remote work could be promising, but unless you actually WANT a remote job, I can't recommend that you pursue one just because of your lack of a degree.

In my experience it is not super hard to find remote software jobs if you are willing or able to do things like the following:

- have a very strong social network with lots of industry connections or opportunities. This is not something I can pull off.

- actually build some kind of demo specific to most jobs that you apply for. Basically try to figure out what they would be hiring you to work on and then start trying to make that and show them.

- be willing to work for low rates that make you competitive with people in countries with a low cost of living.

Remote work is extremely competitive actually. And onsite jobs with large investments in the hire are also even more competitive because there are only so many jobs like that available. And with the greater investment they can be pickier.

If you want a actual high paying job, developing your social network might actually be the most effective way. Then you basically apply through your friends and avoid the normal application process.

What do you mean specifically about the applications in Finland - did you apply and get rejected, or found the requirement and didn't apply? If it's the latter, I'd recommend ignoring it and see how it goes anyway. If it's the former... yeah, remote may be a way to work around that.

Throwaway account.

Although I studied CS and did most of the coursework, I do not have a formal degree.

I do have public profiles, top ranked on a popular programming site, dozen open source projects and I wrote a book.

In short: I had all the time in the world for a degree, if it weren't for all the other activities I am involved in.

In the world today, you can contribute to a project easily and get hired. Building a portfolio has never been easier.

In fact, my current job came to be because of a small tool, that I put online.

And I do have hundreds of ideas for portfolio (and fun) projects, which I would be sure would get me hired at places. If I only had a few weeks or month off to get them off the ground.

In short: Find some technology or problem you are interested in and try to find a way to contribute in a friendly, and recognizable way.

This is basically the first time I hear about any country with a bias against developers without university degree.

Sure there might be general immigration law blockers.

Though pretty much anywhere in Europe that I've checked or know about. At least in IT/Development, you can get a highly skilled migrant work visa without university degree.

And just to be sure - with "I can not afford moving to another country" is not money but family/personal reasons, right?

I have a suggestion:

- hop on LinkedIn

- searching for people, look for "software remote" with the location filter set to Finland

- find some people that have and/or hire for the kinds on jobs you want

- do a bit of research on their company

- reach out to them and see if they'd be willing to do an informational interview on how they got the job, and I bet some of them will refer you for interviews (ever heard the phrase if you want advice, ask for money, and if you want money, ask for advice?)

Not sure if that answers your question, but I currently work at a company based in Helsinki and we are hiring, but we use .NET. In my opinion I would say that whether you are a team player or not is way more important here than an IT degree, so if you are open to starting as a frontend and willing to learn .NET please reach me out at konrad.bartecki@mash.com

Starting a blog is a great way to demo your skills and ability to solve problems.

Here's a relevant article with a few other ideas: https://daedtech.com/programming-job-without-degree/

List of Remote Jobs or Gigs Platforms

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfNAbUX_lN9K3MCNHO15...

What stopped you from moving to the UK? If it's Brexit, consider a move to Ireland instead. While PHP is not a strong language here, Python developers are in high demand.

It's not hard. Show what you've put into production or open-source work. If you see a job ad saying they require a degree, they're more than likely trying to weed away incompetent people.

Reading everything on this thread... I'd mainly agree... sounds like Finland ain't the place.