A dissident who beats up Tai Chi masters
deadspin.com
deadspin.com
For example, Jiu-jitsu, Karate-jutsu, Krav maga are very popular among police academy & military camps around the world. Even Ken-jitsu is taught in Tokyo police academy as well, though not very popular outside of Japan. Those martial arts are designed not only to be very practical in physical contact (neutralize opponent in the shortest amount of time) but also increase the mental toughness. Their cousins (replace the jitsu with do) are more sporty and humane, thus popular in the Olympics.
Growing up watching a lot of Kung-fu/Wushu movies from Hong Kong, I was amazed how artistic it was: beautiful kicks, long-rally sparring time. After getting into Ken-do and boxing, I noticed a typical sparring match lasts at most a few minutes. Then, I came to realize that how a practical martial art is vs. the one with more emphasis on art form. I'm sure certain styles/forms of Kung-fu are more practical (i.e: focusing more on neutralize opponent) as they were intended to be. But over time, the dramatization of motion pictures destroy its original purposes.
Boxing, for example, is hugely restricted to avoid grappling and yet the fighters still try to clench up regularly. Actually staying on your feet, throwing punch after punch, is hugely unnatural. But boxers that learn enough grappling to escape submissions can cross over to MMA and do respectably well, because they have the skills to bring down someone at a distance.
Judo, likewise, is full of artifice these days. There are mamy restrictions on the types of holds, penalties to avoid stalling, scoring balanced heavily towards getting off an impressive throw, and a limit of up to twenty seconds to get a pin. But these restrictions also compel judo players to develop strategies for a quick, confident takedown and submission.
The styles that suffer, in contrast, are the ones that may have had relevance in the context of weapon fighting but are now mostly performance - the tai chis or aikidos of the world. Krav maga persists in part because its design works with the smaller knives that modern armed forces continue to use.
Ultimately, the point of training any named techniques is to develop muscle memory - what that memory is used for is secondary, and in that sense all popular systems succeed.
>Growing up watching a lot of Kung-fu/Wushu movies from Hong Kong
The problem with Kung-fu/Wushu itself, it is for one people over idolise it, second being it completely lost most of its root in Mainland China during the 2nd World War and later CCP forbid the use of it. ( At one point they over emphasise science / Guns / technology and calling Wushu as old fashioned and not up with time during the Cultural Revolution, of course in reality CCP doesn't want to arm people with fighting skills ) Most of the Grand Masters ran for life and arrived to Hong Kong during that time, that quickly spread out as a culture and hence why later you see many Kung Fu movies from Hong Kong.
So yea, it's looking like it's had a lot of success in theater but not in combat.
This is straight out of an episode of Letterkenny, where one of the guys proves that he’s the best fighter in the town. Hilarious episode, can’t believe it actually happens in real life. Season 1, episode 2 if you’re curious.
It's a truly hilarious show and the writing is phenomenal.
If you like clever wordplay it's great.
Are they really that delusional about their training? If so that actually is dangerous, if you are 120lb woman you shouldnt behave like you can easily fend off large men, no matter how good at tai chi or pressure points you are.
But surely, after seeing the initial Tai Chi master getting the crap beaten out of him, then the next, then the next - what on earth is going on? That's more than drinking the Koolaid. That's watching all your friends get poisoned, then going to the punch bowl and getting yourself a cup.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_dollar_(private_curren...
governments are dumb but sometimes they are able to identify the most dangerous threats with great precision.
Does China have a law that prevents contenders from challenging Tai-Chi masters ?
The point I was making is that Tai-Chi became part of mythology created by CPC that is bonding the society. Slightest challenge is not tolerated. Same with Liberty Dollars - these coupons do not violate any laws, but challenge the state's monopoly on money creation.
I can't imagine standing up for rationality being this costly (personally). I think we underestimate how fortunate many of us are.
Some have fooled themselves into thinking they can fight. They get their ass kicked and end up humiliated by their own delusion.
China is embarrassed that their traditional martial arts don't work for MMA or self defense.
EDIT: I suppose I should add a little thing here for people who take the more practical angle: The point during these fights is that there's an idea (in how the announcers set it up) of Western vs. Eastern/Chinese. He's just demonstrating that there's 'it works' and 'ineffectual'. Aka: Science!
A regular person with no previous martial arts training is easy prey for the "masters".
That's why these traditional martial arts gyms still exist.
It's a microcosm of their entire propaganda-state and the corruption that it's rife with. Even their finance reporting follows the same pattern.
somewhere on youtube, there's a clip of two grandmasters fighting in front of a large audience, in the 1950s I think? It's bw and terrible quality, but it's quite obvious that either one of them would've been whooped in a bar fight on Friday night
We know of kung fu in the united states, but there is also sanda/sanshou which actually fight. Shaolin is more about art than the martial.
From what I've heard, the CCP wants to preserve & promote traditional Chinese culture, which includes their native martial arts. They view MMA as a Western influence, so they want to keep it out
Btw, that's what I think the CCP is: Cynical to the utmost extreme. If they sense that the wind is changing they'll adapt. There are limits to how far they'll adapt, obviously[0], but for something like this (cultural heritage vs. whatever), I don't doubt they'll do it soonish. Except for pictures of Winnie the Pooh juxtaposed on the Leader's head. (I mean... how petty can you get?)
[0] Self-preservation would be a top-priority, I imagine. Maybe for the party, but not necessarily.
How are they mostly nonsense? A typical case might be use in an unavoidable situation where some kind of defense is needed. Most people would probably want some kind of 'training' to be able to call on. That is if you can't walk away or avoid which would be the first choice. [1]
Most people are probably not training thinking they are going to fight a determined adversary in a real battle. Saying it is 'mostly nonsense' is the same as saying locks are of no value.
[1] That said I do think that training people for a night or a few lessons 'women learn how to defend yourself if attacked!' is for sure going to cause more harm than good very generally.
It's like comparing the 'four humours' vs. modern medicine
The arts are so deep.
The other part of your comment about TMA thoroughly integrating large parts of MMA is not true in a large sense, though if someone took a class with lots of full contact striking and submission grappling it would be at least somewhat effective regardless of what it is called.
Does not prove that at all. This particular person is obviously exceptional at what he is able to do. It's a big stretch to imply from his skill that 'TMA don't work in normal fights'.
What's a 'normal' fight anyway? A 'normal' fight is not in the basement of a gym where someone separates you and you bow and so on. For that matter a 'normal' fight is not an MMA fight. It is in an everyday situation maybe in a bar maybe by accident on the street. In that case there is a different set of rules and defense strategies.
One other thing. Everyone in discussing this is ignoring what a traditional fighter (or even this person) might do in a 'real' and uncontrolled situation in order to win if they had to and if their life depended on it. Maybe they would poke an eye out maybe they would break a leg or arm. Who knows.
MMA is as close as we get to being able to see real fights over and over. There has been vale tudo in Japan but these fights and fighters were so rare they only gave a glimpse into the patterns that would emerge.
The argument over 'street fights' and 'different rules' has been around for a long time, but the fact is that when MMA fighters end up fighting 'on the street' or in a bar, they win. Being in a different setting doesn't change the enormous skill gap in fighting. Anything the other guy can do the trained person can do too. It doesn't somehow swing things in the other direction. Do you really think some untrained person is going to suddenly be able to eyepoke better than someone who has been boxing for years? Do you think an untrained person is going to be able to break the arm of someone who has taken years of jiu jitsu and practices keeping their arms safe for many hours every week?
It's not this "particular person", it has been proven time and again, even in studies
My guess (per my other comment below) is that there are not any empirical tests for real life situations. Which person does better in a street fight or trying to defend themselves from an attacker (potentially using deadly force) when there is life at stake and no rules. And no person to separate the two fighters (like there were in the video or there are in MMA).
Police & military units the world over study MMA or the individual martial arts that make up MMA (BJJ, wrestling, boxing etc.)- not Kung Fu. Jocko Willink, a highly decorated 20 year Navy SEAL commander, is also a BJJ blackbelt and has specifically said that he used jiu-jitsu to subdue militants in close quarter combat, and that TMAs don't work. On the Joe Rogan podcast he talked about fighting other SEALs in the 90s who were into TMAs and beating them with jiu-jitsu..... Wouldn't an actual Navy SEAL with combat experience know more about what works in a 'real life situation'?
I don't understand how 'person to separate the two fighters' makes it less realistic- they're there to prevent someone who's been KOed from suffering any more unnecessary strikes
If you go back through history, fighting hasnt changed much. There are ancient roman statues showing techniques used today.
As fighters get too injured, arts start to specialize in one area, and often times become stylized to emphasize the art.
Kung fu was eviscerated in the 1920s when fighting in the lei tai was banned. Before that time fights were often times to the death.
Even MMA is watered down from its origin. Rule sets change to emphasize one kind of fight over another. For example bare knuckle favors grappling because you cant punch as hard without breaking your hand. Gloves favor strikers which are more fun to watch.
kung fu includes sanda and sashou which fight as a combat sport.
try not to simplistically and chauvinistically reduce it to "TMA sux, MMA rox" which is silly to say.
Show me where I said that.
> "submissions" won't exist in that dark alley at 3am... It's run away, die, kill, etc
If it wasn't already obvious from the rest of your message it's obvious from this that you have no MMA experience and are guessing at everything. In a dark alley against a single person the best possible outcome would be to get on top with their belly down and use a blood choke which puts them out. That would be a submission, because in the gym you would stop when they tap.
Everything else you said is so nonsensical I can't follow it enough to respond to it.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.". In TMAs you pretty much never ever get punched in the face, all the way to a black belt and smug feeling of superiority. At the Kickboxing gym I attended it was pretty regular to get a new face with high tma rank/belt stop his first sparring after discovering is shock and horror that people actually will hit you and it hurts.
In my karate class, around the time I got my brown belt, we did an exercise where we'd kinda put a punch out and lean into a partner's face with our fists. Thankfully I had an older brother and I got punched in the face plenty as a kid... so rather than a smug feeling of superiority... I came away with the understanding that I was getting great exercise, flexibility, breath and balance training along with some easy-mode sparring practice. And to be fair my instructor was very clear about that too; he knew the limitations of our training and didn't want to see his kids getting chewed up in a street fight
Per my other comment if the person doing the martial arts were in a real life situation perhaps they would take a different approach or tactic. Sparring in a gym is not real life and doesn't measure what happens in a situation where someone might rely on TMA training and why they take it (in other words to defend themselves and not to spar)
WTF taught me splits and fancy useless head kicks like naeryo and dolyo chagi (roundhouse kick). Kickboxing taught me the second you try that on the street someone is going to grab your leg, put you on the ground and let his friends curb stomp your face to the asphalt. Taekwondo wasnt the worst offender, non contact Karate was close to the peak of bullshido.
(1) something you spend pretty much half of every training drilling in useless forms fighting air, air never fights back.
In the case of your friend he did something stupid and got into a situation that he was not prepared for (I had to look up bakkat makki). He didn't recognize the bottle as being dangerous which in retrospect unless you think movies are real is kind of obvious. I was cut on my hand by accident years ago in a work situation by an art knife (by an employee). Same situation and it wasn't a fight. Agree with the kickboxing and I would even say as someone who had a bag as a kid and did karate kicks with it the power that you actually had seemed foolish in thinking you could disable someone with that. Maybe an old lady or a child. Otherwise so much time for someone to react.
That's a proof that ballet dancing lessons sell better than combat training. Who would have thought, right? :-)
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