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Comment by hnzix | Hacker News Reader

We are entering a time of prim moral panic that echoes the temperance movement and the prohibition era. I don't even bother discussing controversial ideas anymore because apparently there is now a list of approved viewpoints and one isn't allowed to play devil's advocate.

Palahniuk's recent novel Adjustment Day lampooned this state of affairs beautifully but it's ultimately depressing, there seems no alternative but to wait for the free speech pendulum to swing back to open discourse in another 15 years or so.

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This has always been the case. There have always been pressures to conform to social norms and stiff penalties for those who did not.

What has changed is not that people are stricter, it's that what's accepted as normal has changed. The world has turned, and some folks suddenly find themselves in the out group for the first time.

I would argue that nothing has significantly changed about cultural norms, except for a widespread acceptance that sexual harassment is unacceptable in the wake of #MeToo.

No, what’s different is that social media allows for decentralized outrage targeting. It can come organically or it can be manufactured by the advertisement-dependent media, autocratic states, PR firms, “social justice warriors”, or other bad actors. That creates the perception of widespread outrage even when its limited to a handful of twitter accounts. But when a few dozen people are so loud you can’t hear the near-silence of everybody else, the rational response is to stop the noise and acquiesce to the outraged, which only gives them more power for the next Internet hate bandwagon.

> I would argue that nothing has significantly changed about cultural norms

My parents told me not to get a tattoo because I'd never land a job and I'd die destitute.

Gay people can get married and I see shoutouts to nonbinary people on the regular.

We're seeing widespread acceptance of vegetarianism and veganism as a personal choice that isn't subject to ridicule.

You mentioned #MeToo, which is still sweeping through various industries.

Class and race consciousness seems to be changing as well.

Neuroatypical people are getting more support and recognition. (Still have plenty of ways to go here.)

I dunno, I'd say we've gone through a lot of changes since the 90s.

> “social justice warriors”, or other bad actors.

Caring about social justice doesn't make one a bad actor.

Perhaps I should have been more precise with my language. What I meant to say was that I don’t think much has changed about cultural norms regarding bandwagoning.

I put “social justice warriors” in quotation marks because there are bad actors within any well-meaning group who in their own efforts do far more damage to themselves and others than they do to help anybody.

Does it swing purely due to the cyclic nature of what is fashionable? Or does it take catastrophic results to shock society into a pendulum swing the other way?

Could silencing make controversial opinions more enticing via the Streisand effect?

It's hard to measure, but it does often bring attention to them when we have these discussions. I do feel the left's online attitude is firing back more than it's helping them. More than anything it makes people who had no position to take a side, which benefits those that are banking on the controversies the most.

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