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> and have any degree but an Engineer one, you must pay 26%

Why the degree constraint?

Same thing exists in Greece and many other countries. In the past specific parts of science would set up their own “welfare” systems. So you’ve got countries with retirement or health funds dedicated to specific professional groups like MDs, engineers or academics.

>Why the degree constraint?

There are some professions (among which Engineers and Architects) that have a separate (let's call them "guilds") pension and assistance fund, that is of a "private" nature and - generally speaking - better managed than public ones.

Traditionally the Engineers contributions (coming mainly from civil and mechanical engineers) were:

1)relatively high (since they had relatively high income) even if the percentage on income is lower (currently it is - I believe - 14.5%)

2)going on for a very long time, an engineer or architect used to work since the degree until well into their 70's or over

3) they had the (unfortunate but good for the fund) habit of dying shortly after retirement (or before retirement)

In recent years things changed:

1) the work (and thus the income and the contribution to the fund) has been more intermittent than before

2) many people are not (unlike before) entirely or mainly freelance, and when you are employed by a firm you pay a minimal annual fee to the guild, but the large part of pension/retirement funds go to the mentioned "Gestione Separata"

3) generally speaking contributions start later and people retir earlier (and live longer), and overall there was a flattening (to the bottom) in either rates of pay or amount of work, so income overall has lowered whilst expenditures have increased

The net effect is that until a few years ago the (medical) assistance was if not excellent very, very good and the retirement/pension monthly wage was relatively high, whilst in recent years everything has toned down a lot.

Well, taxes a certainly not a reason to go to Germany. We also have our own pyramid scheme pension system.

To escape that you probably would have to go to north america. Advantages and disadvantages of course, but if you have a good education and nobody to care for, I can't see why you shouldn't go abroad.

Yeah, to US or to Switzerland - the top destination if you want to stay in German-speaking area.

Well Switzerland has also the French-speaking parts and the super-nice Italian-speaking area around Lugano; I guess it's a rather expensive place though.

no, wait, I did not mean that Italians wants to skip pension contributions, I said that that specific fund ("Gestione Separata") is a scam.

In the UK the amount of money that you have to pay for your pension is almost nothing (of course you have nothing in exchange, as a pension, but you are free to choose your own pensione scheme, mainly private)

So, once again: if an Italian working on IT moves to the UK, he will save 27% of his income, and (most of all) does not feel to be abused. :)

They probably won't save too much, as the final tax is around ~50% as well in the UK. Maybe they will save a bit, but not 27%

Take home pay on a £100,000 income (top-end London senior dev salary) is £66,532, so a 33.5% tax rate. This includes income tax and national insurance (healthcare and basic state pension) but not optional private pension contributions.

For a £50k salary you are looking at 25% total tax rate.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tax-calculator/

Thanks I stand corrected. The "higher rate" is 40% (+ NI) https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates and the highest rate is 45%

If you want to compare with other countries, NI can't be an afterthought. You have to include it in the income tax rate. Just because the UK doesn't call it an additional income tax doesn't stop it from being so.

Edit: and along the same lines, you need to add the "employer's contribution" to the total tax bill. In all NI works out to an additional 15% or so for someone on ~£100000. So that's about 55% in total.

This (the amount of taxes, and shitty predictions for the failure of this system) is true for most european countries (although you get more and better stuff in some countries). When the system collapses in one country, the others will go down fast, and we'll have a huge problem then.

must say Tax in Italy are high, but that is not really the issue: as I wrote, if you are on that fund you just waste 27% or your income.

The problem with taxes maybe is just:

* you never really know how much you have to pay: you cannot handle it by yourself (you need an private adviser)

Yes, and in slovenia it's 25%, and in other countries its at mostly the same level. Then theres's health insurance (12.92% in slovenia). Only after that you get income taxes. And above that you get VAT (22% here) for your services. So basically, you charge your customers ~5k, and get ~2k of net payout (the rest goes to the government) ... and that's without any actual business expenses.

Denmark has even higher taxes, but the country still works better than italy.

Calculating taxes is pretty easy in most countries, especially if you have to do it yourself (eg. independent contractors, etc.).

The only problem here is, that once one country fails (eg. they stop paying out pensions), all the other ones will go into full panic mode, and the shit will hit the fan.

so in Slovenia the pension contributions are 25% + you have to add health insurance 13%?, plus income?

in the UK the above amount to almost nothig: but then, of course you need your own pension scheme and health insurance.

yes, it is a lot, but the point here is not just the amount, but what you get: with the Italian "Gestione Separata" pension fund you just waste your money (and is 27% of your income !).

The amount is split between you and your employer, but if you're self employed it doesn't really matter (and in any way, it's you who has to earn the company the whole amount).

Here's the calculator: https://data.si/izracun-place/

In "01 Plača" in "Plača" enter the gross monthly amount, and at the right side ("03 Izračun", there's "Strošek izplačevalca" (what the employer pays all together), and "Neto plača" (net pay you get).

Hah! Belgium, world tax champion, can do better than that!

You have a salaried job. You set up a side gig after working hours. After business expenses, you pay: * (depending on the province) ~100€/year of flat rate provincial tax, regardless of income * 22% of independent contractor "solidary contribution", for which you get _literally_ nothing in return * if you have a somewhat decent paying main job, ~53.5% federal and local tax

No wonder so many people's side gigs here either go unreported or show zero profit...

with VAT, it should not be a cost for you, is it? (I mean, it should be a cost just for the "value added")

You have to charge your customers the VAT, so if you're employed as a plumber, you actually have to charge the customers directly everything including the VAT. It's not the you who pays it directly, but you have to earn your company the amount including the vat.

VAT is a sales tax (or purchase tax). The "value added" bit is a neat scheme allowing tax authorities to collect efficiently - it's nothing to do with value, it's about price; the government taxes transactions (the vendor pays). Like all sales taxes, it's regressive: poor people spend more of their income on purchases than rich people, so they spend more on sales tax.

Income tax and wealth tax are much more progressive, but they're also much harder to assess and collect.

Just a small correction: as a business, you subtract the VAT on your suppliers’ invoices from the VAT invoiced to your customers. Effectively you remit the taxes only on the added value of your business, hence the name. This makes it also harder to avoid taxes. But in the end, the end user pays the tax on the full price, as you say.