... so instead, you end with a bunch of observational studies (which cannot show causation), or studies of placeholders assuming it maps to something people actually care about (eg. "cholesterol levels in the blood stream after X hours" for "Y years of life lost to heart disease per hundred thousand"), or bench studies (some chemical component in broccoli can kill cancer cells in a petri dish becomes "broccoli fights cancer" ignoring the fact that eg. fire kills cancer cells in a petri dish... that doesn't mean you should eat it).
... which are subject to all the usual difficulties for associated with subjects that are hard to study: small samples, inadequate surveys, bad statistics, HARKing, p-hacking.
... the resulting papers are then reported on uncritically, often generalizing the claims well beyond what the underlying science would support... because people read articles about things they actually do (eat meat) and outcomes they care about (live longer/avoid heart disease)... not about bench results.
In this type of scenario, I would expect frequent changes in what is considered “true” and I would consider that a good sign assuming the proper procedures are resulting in iterative improvements to our field of knowledge.
Animal rights groups tend to elevate my food to having similar rights as humans. I find this to be a minimum facetious at maximum a threat to my life.
Does it? What about vegetarian and vegans animals? (including some humans)
> Animal rights groups tend to elevate my food to having similar rights as humans.
It's more accurate to say that animal rights groups believe that the lives of animals are more important than your taste buds.
https://www.the-scientist.com/features/plant-talk-38209
>It's more accurate to say that animal rights groups believe that the lives of animals are more important than your taste buds.
My belief is I am healthier eating animals. Burden is on you to prove me wrong.
Every major dietician association says the same thing about veg diets, that they are healthy for all stages of life, including pregnancy, infancy (excepting breastmilk of course), and early childhood.
There's no burden on me to change your behavior, you can do whatever you want.
agreed
I will add that the food chain should remain natural. When I die I would get eaten except humans today pump their old body full of toxins and put it inside a coffin inside a concrete box.... This breaks the natural cycle.
Eat or be eaten ;)
Seems to be a ... rather glaring exception.
Survival instinct is not allowed since you wont allow humans survival instinct to eat everything and anything to be part of the situation.
And stop kidding yourself about this being about some sort of primal "survival instinct". We live in a modern and comfortable society where a Canadian can buy cheap tropical fruits in January.
A good way to ensure that we never survive if this changes is to insist that animals are required to give "consent", whatever that means.
As a note :
A large solar storm taking out the grid would show you how close we are to losing the comfortable society, or one of many other similar events. There isnt a city in this country that would be able to handle the loss of electricity for a week let alone a month.
What food doesn't require electricity to keep? Oats, wheat, beans, lentils, potatoes, rice, apples, pears, onions, etc. Notice a trend? It's all vegan food. Good luck :)
So tell me again how exactly eating meat is preparing you for survival in the (SUPER LIKELY) event of a mass power-outage and food shortage?
This is all a moot point anyways, because veganism is about not using animals "as far as is possible and practicable", so eating animals if your survival depends on it is actually fully acceptable in the definition on veganism (see https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism)
Being in a city dooms most of the population in an event like this anyway. Combine the fact most city dwellers have never harvested food or cleaned an animal let alone takens its life.
When all that vegan food runs out where do you think you are going to grow more ? Rabbits eat grass and other vegetation that grows in cities. Not to mention they populate fast enough you would likely not even starve to death before production ramped up :)
Now...all that aside.
Can we just agree to not tell each other what to eat ?
Yep, I said from the start that I don't have any burden to change what you do. I never made any argument against meat-eating, why are you so obsessed with trying to prove vegans wrong?
It's certainly not facetious (not sure if you're looking for another word here?) and laughable that it's a threat to your life. AR activists look to people to grant non-humans rights based on their interests - the same as we do with humans, but not the same rights. And to be honest, almost every single person I've ever spoken to holds the exact same moral beliefs as any vegan, but are unwilling to consistently apply those beliefs to their actions.
>All higher life on this planet survives by eating another life form.
That's not relevant to this discussion unless you're talking to someone who thinks consuming any life is immoral. Sounds like you're arguing a straw man.
>That's not relevant to this discussion unless you're talking to someone who thinks consuming any life is immoral. Sounds like you're arguing a straw man.
But it is relevant. You would elevate animals above plants.
If you want to give rights to things with life give it to everything.
That's another straw man. I could reply in the exact same way to you wanting to give rights to humans. Your argument for granting rights to humans is not based on the fact that we're alive and neither is the Animal Rights argument. You understand that - right? There is literally no one arguing that we should grant rights to animals on the basis on them being alive.
Animals and plants do not have rights. You dont have the power to grant them rights.
Animals and plants are food.
Granny was right when she said people have it too good. Folks look around for things to do instead of just enjoying what they have.
You still haven't actually addressed anything I've said and declaring animals and plants are food is a descriptive statement, not a normative one.
And Granny was wrong.
Interesting how you assume you can dismiss thousands of years of human law / natural law in one sentence.
>You still haven't actually addressed anything I've said and declaring animals and plants are food is a descriptive statement, not a normative one.
Plants and animals are food for humans. This is a factual statement.
>And Granny was wrong.
The older I get the less I believe that. Would be an interesting experiment to put someone in an RV trailer with a cow, plenty of water and no food in an area they couldn't leave. Come back in a month and see what they thought about animal rights.
People are too separated from their food supplies aka have it too good.
Human law is relevant to the whether we grant humans rights, the idea that which you took issue with. "Natural law" isn't an argument for really anything. I'm not sure what you think I'm dismissing, but if you have an argument to make, make one. The pearl clutching really doesn't get us anywhere.
> Plants and animals are food for humans. This is a factual statement.
It is. I said exactly that. Humans are also food for humans. That's another factual statement. But you can't conflate descriptive and normative statements, which you seem bent on doing.
> Would be an interesting experiment to put someone in an RV trailer with a cow, plenty of water and no food in an area they couldn't leave. Come back in a month and see what they thought about animal rights.
You could perform the same experiment with two humans - or we could look at instances like the Donner party. What people do in extreme situations to prevent their deaths is interesting, but it's not an argument for what you should do on a daily basis outside of such a situation.
Natural law is where humans get rights (they are born with them), also the foundation of modern civilization.
> What people do in extreme situations to prevent their deaths is interesting, but it's not an argument for what you should do on a daily basis outside of such a situation.
What people do to survive is eat. What they eat is the entire subject you are arguing.
Glad to see we agree humans eat everything. Now can you quit pretending animals have some right to not be eaten ?
The worst part is, that's not really "one" side. Many of those groups are actively fighting each other, particularly now that organic foods, supplements, and superfood-of-the-week are big business.