IPhone v Android debate 'not important' | Hacker News Reader

IPhone v Android debate 'not important'

thedailymash.co.uk

64 pointsgaius25 comments

Arguments like this are enjoyable so long as they're argued with a spirit of fun. But I think too frequently people forget the insignificance of the debate and begin really getting angered and hurt over the other side's arguments.

I mean, it's a phone OS. Neither iOS nor Android is going to have a monopoly. Some people really don't like the idea of a locked-down phone, and they're completely happy with Android. Some people care more about the excessive polish that Apple's so good at delivering, and they're completely happy with the iPhone. Some people aren't completely happy with either, so they either jailbreak iOS or they come up with some other compromise. But really as long as there's something for everybody, it doesn't matter if other people are enjoying their other phone.

I mean, it's a phone OS. Neither iOS nor Android is going to have a monopoly.

Many fail to see how perilously close we actually came to an iPhone monopoly. While work-issued Blackberries and not-really-smartphone Nokias made the chart look less intimidating, from a real consumer perspective the iPhone owned the game completely.

And of course that matters to all of us because mobile devices are the future, and the choices today -- like the choice of DOS in the 80s -- will impact us well into the future. I don't want to live in a world where the freedoms we enjoy is granted by the department of justice.

But yes, just a phone and all that.

Dude, no way. While the iPhone may have had a temporary large majority in the "smart phones consumers actually want to buy" field, they never had more than a fraction of the cell phone market, and they never established a monopoly in the sense that there was essentially no other phone you would want to get. How could it be? It was only on AT&T, and AT&T doesn't have a monopoly as a network.

While the iPhone's very competitive, and while it has a near monopoly in terms of media popularity — I've seen many iPhones in movies, and no Droid — it by no means came remotely close to a monopoly. Just as the iPod was never a monopoly — it had an enormous marketshare, but there were many successful MP3 players that competed with it and served as a viable option for people who didn't want an iTunes lock-in.

While the iPhone may have had a temporary large majority in the "smart phones consumers actually want to buy" field, they never had more than a fraction of the cell phone market,

The Windows monopoly was entrenched when the market was a fraction of a fraction what it was today: That's the whole essence of a monopoly -- it is self-sustaining.

While Android has made a lot of gains, there are still a lot of networked usages where you are left out if you don't get on the iOS train, whether it's a compelling platform itself or not. I'm going to grab my wife an iPod Touch purely so she can play a WeDoodle game, because that's what every other person on a mommy group plays. My bank released an iPhone application -- promoting it heavily -- after having never released a rich-client application for any platform ever, including when Windows had some 99% of the market.

That's the essence of a monopoly. When your choice is very heavily driven by the network effect of the product. Today it is much, much weaker than it was a year or two ago, but it is still in effect.

While the iPhone's very competitive, and while it has a near monopoly in terms of media popularity - I've seen many iPhones in movies, and no Droid - it by no means came remotely close to a monopoly

Well clearly it isn't now. Android has fractured that nascent monopoly (though many in the Apple cheerleading camp are now proclaiming that with the Verizon phone you no longer need to worry about developing for other platforms -- those suckers have an option of iOS devices on two carriers now. Problem?). Which is why I said that it was close. Two years ago the iPhone was the only smartphone that mattered. Even one year ago there was a strong argument made on places like here that the iPhone was all that really mattered.

And the reality is that if Google didn't have an enormous pile of cash to burn on this project, and they didn't have the "enemy of few" status to actually get the partnerships that mattered, today the iPhone would be the only valid smartphone choice.

But you forget that the iPhone competed in many, many fields.

Consumer phone market? iPhone was up against every single cheap phone that called and placed texts. Those phones are still popular for the majority of the population.

Enterprise market? Blackberry was king. Nobody else came close.

Gaming device? The DS and PSP were and still are powerful competitors. The DS in particular, because Nintendo's one of the king game makers and they restrict all their games to their own console.

The iPhone competed very effectively in all those markets. But it never had a risk of dominating a single one. Compare that to Windows — if I wanted a consumer operating system that ran the best/most popular programs, I had to get Windows, because there was no other operating system that had anything like the programs I'd actually have to use. (Mac OS? Not even close.)

If Google didn't have their huge amounts of cash, we'd still have the Blackberry OS, which is still enormously successful (though it's taken a hit recently), and we'd have Windows Phone 7, which is actually a really damn decent operating system.

I didn't forget anything.

The iPhone had overwhelming dominance in the consumer smartphone space. That is absolutely without question. That dominance is how it moved into the enterprise market, the gaming market, and so on. Exactly how Windows invaded the server room based upon the massive dominance it had outside of the server room.

If Android didn't prevent absolute iPhone dominance, RIM would be dead in the consumer space (and dying in the enterprise space), and Windows Phone 7 would have been DoA. Every single review would say "it's cute and all, but without the apps its a nonstarter".

> Every single review would say "it's cute and all, but without the apps its a nonstarter".

I think we're getting to the point where we can't discuss this alternative reality meaningfully (but don't get me wrong, this was a very nice discussion!), but I'm curious. What makes you think that without Android nobody else would launch an App Store, or that nobody else would have the clout to get the sorts of apps that users are interested in?

Sans Android, the iPhone would still have the limitations inherent to a closed system that it has today. Anybody else could have added the background multitasking, or the free GPS, or any of the features that made Android popular, to their own OS, and attracted the same audience that made Android big. I mean, Microsoft is by no means a company that can't afford to compete with Apple financially, and RIM's no slouch either.

What makes you think that without Android nobody else would launch an App Store, or that nobody else would have the clout to get the sorts of apps that users are interested in?

Android didn't prevent anyone else from entering the space. Yet where are they? If Android didn't appear and get a lot of often undeserved goodwill on Google's back (through much of its life it has been a seriously shitty platform. I've been using it since it was released but would not wish it upon even an enemy until recently), the iPhone would have conquered the whole smartphone market with ease.

Windows Phone 7 already appears too far behind, yet in an alternate scenario where Android didn't "fragment" the market it would have been impossible behind the times.

I try not to get too involved, but sometimes I think people don't realise what they're paying for... If you buy an iPhone, then jailbreak it, you just paid Apple some money. Part of it will be used to sponsor lawyers and lobby who will actively fight against jailbreaking and try to introduce laws which makes jailbreaking illegal. You're additionally sponsoring research on further closing down systems.

So basically you funded some people to prevent you from doing what you've just done. If they succeed with any similar laws, they'll be also extended to other systems, so even if google won't sue someone for jailbreaking Android, another producer might.

Yes, life is so much bigger than arguing which phone is the best. Until it matters again.

See: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/hamiltonian.png

Would just like to note that [in the xkcd comic] he should have used her abdomen or back to take notes. The chest has an unfavourable topology for that kind of thing.

Yes I have empirically proven this.

[pedantic]

Topology? AFAIK, all of these are homeomorphic to a piece of paper.

Topography != Topology.

While I'm not sure if there's an actual fusion in the depths of the naval, for practical purposes, the abdomen can be considered homeomorphic to the punctured plane, and treated accordingly.

... "for practical purposes" ...

Sigh. I guess I'll have to turn in my pure math degree.

You've not considered any possible piercings ;)

Depends on the chest. Or abdomen for that matter.

There speaks a man of experience!

Well I like the kind of girl whose chest is impractical for writing :P

While I'm sure spherical writing is all the rage in some circles, I prefer nice non-infinite straight lines ...

... I wonder if an algorithm could be extracted for the best helix function to use as the line basis to write on chest in regards to economy of space and ergonomy of writing.

When you only link to the image you lose a very important part of xkcd's content (the alt text): http://xkcd.com/230/

And for those on an iPhone or Android phone: http://m.xkcd.com/230/

Does anyone think the debate as to what platform a developer should be targeting (assuming they are trying to earn a living from it) is important?

The reason I ask is I'm currently developing an Android app (as I have an Android phone and no mac) but I keep wondering if it's worth getting hold of a mac and iPhone sooner rather than later.

I don't think it matters where you start as long as you think through design and architecture to be as cross platform as possible. You have got to start somewhere.

iOS is stupidly better for monetization, and the demand for Objective-C developers is still very high.

Android users simply don't buy as many apps, and the pretty steep upper limit on app sizes mean several apps you can easily do on iOS are considerably harder on android. We've yet to see a project yet where android outsells iOS. (This very likely has to do with the wonky payment system for Android which started with very few nations and still isn't anywhere near Apple's numbers of participating nations. For Most non-US specific apps, they sell about 50% abroad 50% domestic, so that's a HUGE deal.)

The tools have a laughable difference in quality (XCode/InterfaceBuilder used to be a little sketchy for apps, is now pretty good, but eclipse is still eclipse, and graphical layout and editing is still very out there for android, but is the norm for iOS).

(I used to be an embedded Linux dev, I really wish android was doing considerably better).

That $1289 you'd spend buying a late generation iPod Touch and a white macbook is very worth it (or a mac mini even).

   "A phone's a phone. In two year's time they'll all be buried in a
   landfill with a load of dirty nappies and rotting chicken carca[s]ses."

Ignorance at its greatest. As long as millions of people continue to use smart phones, the OS will continue to hold great significance. What ever replaces iOS or Android will be based off them, so it's important not to pass of these OS's just because a new OS will replace them. People are spending a huge portion of their lives on their phones. The OS is what they are interacting with, and even a slight change in the interface or functionality can leave a lasting impression on users. Mobile OS's are very, very important, and concluding that they're useless without any justification whatsoever is simply crazy.

Interesting that this would run on the same day Jobs takes a leave of absence. Talk about reinforcing what matters.

It is of some importance to people yet to upgrade to either one. Google's voice translator app & rush poker tipped the balance for me.

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