On Stimming and Autistic Authenticity | Hacker News Reader

On Stimming and Autistic Authenticity

thingofthings.wordpress.com

48 pointsbarry-cotter37 comments

I don't like the obsession with returning to what's natural. It's deceptive and totally glosses over the underlying rational for why things are/were a certain way.

These "stimming" behaviours are better described as "soothing" behaviours. Yes, some of them stimulate and excite us, but they occur in response to stress (e.g. loud noises or boredom). Of course you're going to become depressed when you actively stop yourself from soothing, the stress is just going to run rampant through you. That doesn't mean you have to embrace them completely though. You can learn different ways to cope, ones that the less aware can tolerate better.

That's just my two cents though.

In the couple months before my first big hypomanic episode (and my mercifully swift diagnosis), I was experiencing what in retrospect looks like strong anxiety. But I'd been reading autism/neurodiversity literature and found that the self-rocking behavior soothed me, specially in public, and enabled me to be in social situations (even went to a party once).

Foolish 25-year old me though "well, autistic stimming helps me, maybe I have a touch autism". Ha. ----

Edit: I have a young nephew who's probably gonna have confirmation on an autism diagnosis in an year or so. Since he spinned so much, I started spinning with him, either independently or raising him from the ground and making him fly.

Now I like to spin on my own, late at night, when no one will interrupt me. Caught it from a kid.

Last year for Halloween, I dressed as Hunter S Thompson (Fear and Loathing style). I remember being out and people remarking they really liked the costume, but how well I portrayed him. One person asked, "Are you on ether?" I replied, "No I'm on the spectrum." My normal body language movement is very fluid, seldom still. I don't hand flap, but I'm certain I have my own things. I feel masking will never do anything to change the conversation or raise awareness. ASD isn't entirely a disability, in fact to myself and likely many on this site (if you have it), there are aspects that are extraordinary if not super-human and quite beneficial day-to-day. The conversation about ASD seems to revolve only around the disabling aspects - expecting people to be something they are not, because their default mode is 'bad' does nothing to help.

This is a well-observed phenomenon in the care-industry. After a patient is diagnosed with a disability there is a danger of overfitting other behavior to the disease profile. Its called a "second/third order disability" depending on whether it the patient themself or their environment that is making the claim.

Take Greta Thunberg as an example. Her mother started claiming that her autism makes her more susceptible to the dangers of climate change. Her detractors are throwing this back at her, saying this little girl has autism which makes her susceptible to the global-warming lobby. Neither of these statements is any help to either side of the cause because they are an ad-hominem attack/defense.

When I squint my eyes, a lot of this autism awareness looks like identity politics by other means. Another argument to be made in the everlasting master-slave dialectic.

I think you’re somewhat misinterpreting the post here, which as inwardly directed expression of the thought process of an individual while you discuss the external thought process and judgements onto an individual.

They are connected, as tfa is about changing your behavior due to sociatial expectation. As much as I try otherwise, I have to accept those pressures mould us with or without our consent and/or knowledge.

> a lot of this autism awareness looks like identity politics by other means. Another argument to be made in the everlasting master-slave dialectic.

I'm not really clear what you mean here?

"Identity politics" is what arises when people are treated negatively because of what they appear to be; they then reclaim this identity that they are called and try to use it for collective action.

I have no idea what "master-slave dialectic" has to do with any of this? There's no "slavery".

The master-slave dialectic is a specific, rather abstract, idea in Hegelian theory. Unfortunately I cannot claim to be able to explain it in good heart.

Why call the others "normies"? The others are normal and just normal, while I am special and therefore special. Does that sound like a slave to you?

Identity politics is when someone's identity characteristics (gender, race, etc) are used to assign to them to a characteristic based group instead of an ideological one. Eg, "Irish Engineers Club" instead of "Socialist-Republic Engineers Club" (to use an entirely fictional example).

The master-slave dialectic is when one posits two sides as having a master (dominant, in charge) side and a slave side (subordinate, no control over their own circumstances). Eg, a CEO and low-level workers.

"Identity politics is when someone's identity characteristics (gender, race, etc) are used to assign to them to a characteristic based group instead of an ideological one. Eg, "Irish Engineers Club" instead of "Socialist-Republic Engineers Club" (to use an entirely fictional example)."

I could see legitimate uses for this, though. For example, there are definitely medical, legal, and ethical concerns regarding identifying as a trans person. Such resources such as how to advocate for yourself to recieve appropriate medical treatment for gender dysphoria, what laws to pay attention to, what politicians and policy proposals are involved, where to purchase products, what to say to police, etc. are all very specific to being a trans person.

I could totally imagine a trans-specific resource pool and community to discuss shared knowledge. A group as defined by identity affected by political changes. That might collectively advocate politically based on their identity. Eg. Medicare for all is great, but will medicare for all cover gender affirmation?

Similar groups form for couples dealing with infertility and the legal, emotional, political issues with alternative ways of creating a family. Adoption is a massive process. IVF often isn't covered by insurance, or if it is, it's coverage is extremely limited. Surrogacy is also rife with problems legally. They, too, can form political movements based on their similar experiences.

I wasn't making a value statement that any given ideology is good or bad. I was simply providing definitions.

Yes, I understand, I was trying to provide context of why people might be doing that.

Jiggling your leg counts as stimming? Hmmmmm. I do a few of the other things too...

It may come as a surprise, but neurotypical people also show stereotypical movements (stereotypy is the term used formally in scientific literature for this behavior).

There is a neural pathway that triggers this to occur in about any human, under the right circumstances - just watch anyone doing something that demands deep focus or concentration combined with fine motor skills.

For example, watch a musician or a someone playing videogame and you can identify motor stereotypical moves in the facial muscles (specially tongue/mouth/jaw).

The stereotypical moves in autistic persons tend to be very characteristic and are easy to spot if you have a trained eye.

So don't worry about moving your toes in patterns or jiggling your leg while you are coding, it is perfectly normal.

I've never seen a precise definition of stimming. Nor have I seen anything that talks about precisely how characteristic various forms of stimming are for autistic, otherwise neurodiverse folks, and neurotypical folks.

I think the social model of disability is really helpful here. Regardless of what neurological commonalities there are or aren't, we have a set of social classifications of which potential stimming behaviors are normal or deviant. Tapping your leg is normal (sometimes annoying to people nearby, but normal), flapping is clearly deviant, and lots of other behaviors are somewhere in the middle. This is socially significant, regardless of whether it maps cleanly to some non-social difference.

Am I getting this right; he learned to act like an autist, people got mad, he stopped and now he is observing autists like Kung-fu masters observing cranes and mantis'to come up with new moves?

I don't think you are getting it right. The author has some behaviors and has observed that some of them may have come simply from observing other autistic people. There is a core question of where did the behavior originate, and that question causes a lot of anxiety for the author in a world that is hostile to "the other".

This is expanded by a desire to free themselves of the world's judgment and their internalized constraints. Enacting these behaviors, borrowed from others or created within, feels like connecting with their natural body when before they felt separated.

No.

They stimmed naturally as a child; were shamed for it and stopped; eventually realized that stimming is harmless and helpful to them; and started consciously allowing themself to do it again, using other autistic people as a reminder of how to do that.

Edit: Why is this being downvoted? I am factually summarizing the content of the article. If you don't like the article, don't take it out on me.

This was the answer I needed, I just don't understand or care about the rest of... whatever is being discussed.

For the future, you'll get more helpful answers if your questions aren't snarky and insulting, and if you make a good-faith effort to understand before assuming the worst.

I didn’t read the article but my question is in what context can whatever the hell you just wrote make sense to any living human

Not "he". And, no, you aren't.

Are you sure? From skimming their other posts, the author appears to be a trans man, but doesn't explicitly state pronouns or identity anywhere.

Ozy is NB AFAB. They used to work as a camgirl and were Scott Alexander’s girlfriend (Ozy’s term, not mine.). Preferred pronoun “they”. I think they've said they find “he” less objectionable than “she” but I'd stick with the preferred pronoun. They are super out about all of this.

What's AFAB

Edit - Nevermind..

>AMAB/AFAB is an intersex terminology, for those who were born with ambiguous genitalia. The intersex community is not happy that it is used inappropriately by those whose genitalia at birth was standard for their sex (trans or not). If your genitalia corresponds with your sex, then you are not AMAB/AFAB, as it means “assigned (fe)male at birth”, where “assigned” depicts the the medical personnel’s choice of what sex would be more suitable for this or that particular baby with this or that particular abnormality (intersex conditions are medical abnormalities of fetal development, not a third sex or whatever). For all other babies with normal genitalia there is no assignment, there is an observation of their biological sex (not gender as in gender identity or gender expectations).

>So, please, do not call yourself AMAB if you don’t have an actual intersex condition (doesn’t matter if you are a trans person or not). This is appropriation.

I know you're just quoting here, but for the record, the idea that AMAB/AFAB are "owned" by intersex people is bullshit. The terms were invented by the trans community, and a small minority of transphobes want to erase that, but they don't represent the majority of the intersex community or anyone else.

AMAB/AFAB means "they said 'it's a boy/girl' when you were born." That's all.

Sources:

* The reply to your link https://medium.com/p/fb8447cffdee/responses/show

* Reddit discussion https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/7glz6x/does...

* This article https://freedominwickedness.tumblr.com/post/34492218525/once...

Thank you for educating on the subject.

Do you have a source for that, since it seems to be a quote from somewhere? I'm not questioning or challenging you, I actually want to use the link to disseminate this among my companions that use that term for purposes of labeling in trans spaces.

I posted my own feelings in another comment, if you're interested. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21139083

https://medium.com/@zveroferma/amab-afab-is-an-intersex-term...

I know this is not your writing, and you just stumbled into this, but I am also intersex and am going to call that author out on their BS.

Sex assignment is the official term used for designating a sex to all babies[0] not just intersex ones. As such it is totally correct to use the terms AFAB and AMAB to describe non-intersex trans or even cis people.

The author most likely just has a bone to pick with trans people for using intersex people for their own ends, without sharing their visibility or talking about our issues. Which is a valid grievance, but this is not a valid outlet for it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_assignment

Thank you for sharing your view. I really appreciate your education on the subject.

Interesting, thank you!

Always fun to spot the "what is X" -> two minute window -> "okay, <strongly-held contrarian opinion about X>" comment pattern.

Thanks for the info! I stand corrected

I did have to look for it, but the About section says they use gender-neutral pronouns.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com