Would you mind be more concrete? I’m curious what part is surprising from your travel experience, assuming you are just a regular traveler/tourist (i.e. not journalist)
* Cartoons - Authoritarianism was wrapped up and packaged with cute police cartoons https://www.google.com/search?q=china+police+cartoon&sxsrf=A...
* The Red Armbands - Communist party volunteers, in the subway, and in the community keeping watch https://bitterwinter.org/red-armbands-are-watching-you/
* Passport check at sensitive locations and to buy a train ticket. To get into Tiananmen Square I needed a passport, I was denied entry to my train and separated from my group because the passport number didn't match my ticket
* Police everywhere. Literally everywhere
* I saw a a mosque surrounded by security cameras. They didn't even hide its surveillance.
* I was watched everywhere, except the great wall - but I was told cameras are being constructed there too. The feeling I had was like being in the forest of District 12 of the Hunger Games, I felt free there.
* Signs in the Hotel warn you that you DO NOT have a right to privacy, and you must register your passport or state ID
This applies in the US too in most cities I’ve done business in. Some hotels don’t enforce the ordinances, but the hotel is supposed verify who is staying at the hotel, along with license plate numbers of vehicles the guest has. Also, I wouldn’t want to stay in a hotel that doesn’t check rooms periodically (at least once per week), as that is a recipe for meth cooking and hoarders bringing pests into the building and numerous other problems.
That they note that you don't have a right to privacy is the only odd part. It's fairly common around the world to have to present your passport / passport details at hotels for their records. It's definitely not strange that China's hotels would require that.
I think that response is moving the goalpost.
I noted that it's common throughout the world that hotels often require passport details. Your response to that is to change the issue in question to the consequences of non-compliance and away from what you initially presented as the problem ("you must register your passport or state ID").
Is your goal to argue? I don't get it.
His goal is to point out that you said "in China they tell you you need to register at hotels", and when he answered that that's the case in the US and other countries too, you expanded your question to "Does the police show up if you don’t register in Other countries they do in China".
That's normally called "moving the goalposts".
Now you're implying that they have some further motive, or just "want to agree".
Well, they wanted to point a flaw in your original argument (that implied it's somehow unique to China to have you register at hotels). Are they allowed to?
https://www.wklaw.com/do-police-need-a-warrant-to-search-my-...
https://www.meetingstoday.com/newsevents/industrynews/indust...
A quick google search shows many town ordinances such as this one:
http://carync.iqm2.com/Citizens/Detail_LegiFile.aspx?Frame=&...
>Guest register. Every innkeeper shall at all times keep and maintain on the premises of hotel a guest register in which shall be inscribed the name and home address of each guest and shall contain such guest's vehicle description and license plate state and number.
"On June 22, 2015, the U.S. Supreme Court concluded in City of Los Angeles v. Patel that a Los Angeles ordinance requiring hoteliers to keep and maintain guest registries and to make them available to the police upon request violated the hoteliers Fourth Amendment rights. "
Hotels need to be on the good side of the police.
Finally, the only (scary) things really specific to China you list are the milice and the fact they clearly told you have no privacy right.
* Cartoons - https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91dnIHIQXfL...
* The Red Armbands - https://www.patriotguard.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/pgr_...
* Passport check - https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/05/who-lives-in-border-p...
* Police everywhere. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8G7XsjSzRo
* I saw a a mosque surrounded by security cameras. https://www.aclu.org/other/factsheet-nypd-muslim-surveillanc...
* I was watched everywhere - i could go on and on... PRISM, security cameras everywhere, Ring doorbell cams being given to cops, stingray, etc etc etc etc etc
* Signs in the Hotel warn you that you DO NOT have a right to privacy, and you must register your passport or state ID - Same in the US
at least China is open about it, and has tons of socialist policies so people don't die from poverty.
There’s definitely a privacy issue there but it’s close to impossible to raise the awareness of Chineses unless something drastic happens.
Edit: Perhaps I have a low bar of human right issues but those you described doesn’t seem like red flag to me
Is that because the West is acutely self-critical? Or is there something else going on here?
Egypt under Hosni Mubarak near the end was notably different. There'd be heavily armed soldiers everywhere in all black. Unexplainable trucks of soldiers going everywhere. Locals wouldn't talk about certain places. I haven't been to China myself but my parents have and we've all been to Egypt and their impression was that the big cities were pretty much like a big European city or something like New York.
If it gives you any faith that my opinion isn't some Chinabot, I still remember The Economist's Red Moon Rising issue as frightening. I just think they're probably very good at keeping the authoritarianism inconspicuous and therefore more terrifying.
I don't deny your experience but this could be one of those Rashomon like situations where we all look at the same thing and come away with a different picture. And if it wasn't actually in your face then it'll discredit any argument about China's authoritarianism when people go there and see a prosperous happy people instead.
Those were installed for the Olympics in 2008, I believe, when they feared terrorist attacks with foreign victims tarnishing their image. Nowadays they're still manned, but more security theater. I got all kinds of questionable stuff through the scanner, including an induction stove and a kitchen knife. No one ever bothered to take a closer look.
> * Cartoons - Authoritarianism was wrapped up and packaged with cute police cartoons
Police ≠ Authoritarianism. Most Chinese police officers are just doing completely ordinary police work.
> * Police everywhere. Literally everywhere
Sounds like you literally never left the touristy areas. China has fewer law enforcement personnel per inhabitant than most Western countries and heavy presence is limited to only a few important spots, like tourist attractions.
> * I saw a a mosque surrounded by security cameras. They didn't even hide its surveillance.
I've never seen a mosque without security cameras in Western Europe either. Mosques are prime targets for all kinds of hate crimes, so they're obviously going to use surveillance to protect themselves.
> * I was watched everywhere, except the great wall - but I was told cameras are being constructed there too. The feeling I had was like being in the forest of District 12 of the Hunger Games, I felt free there.
Next time you're in China, try taking the subway to somewhere out in the periphery and then just walk in a random direction for an hour or so. You're going to see a China that is much less surveilled, without police; a China that is dirtier, poorer and in a way more honest than what you see if you just tick off the famous tourist spots. You'll still be watched, of course; not by cameras, but by ordinary Chinese citizens who don't get to see a foreigner everyday.
Here is a picture of one set of cameras around the mosque, which did not seem normal to us. My cousin pointed it out and we laughed at the blatant violation of privacy we saw - saying they don't even hide the fact they are watching https://imgur.com/a/8WbFxBi
and I'm not sure its fair to say I stayed in tourist areas, I was an hour and a half outside of town, and we ventured into poor areas of SH.
Somewhere down here, for example: https://www.google.com/maps/place/31.031362,+121.472129/@31.... Not a lot of surveillance cameras in an area where people live next to open sewage ditches. (Those don't really stand out in the satellite image, so the location is only very approximate.)
Why not? A Subway casualty could be much more serious than a single plane. It's thousands vs hundreds.
> They didn't even hide its surveillance.
They shouldn't, right?