Hacker News Reader

Comment by alpaca128 | Hacker News Reader

This is one of the projects that go a step too far for me in terms of minimalism. No bookmarks, what? No, we don't need complicated bookmarking with tagging etc., but what's wrong about having a text file with one URL per line, like qutebrowser does?

And without JavaScript this browser has even fewer features than suckless' surf, the browser that doesn't even come with an address bar. To be quite honest I would love to be able to surf the web without JS, but nowadays the amount of websites still working with that restriction just isn't enough.

View on HN

[Dev] I understand your arguments well and accept your criticism. The problem with the bookmarks has been solved so that the user can send them by email. The links are stored centrally and I can access them directly from my computer, laptop or smartphone. A text file on my OS is cumbersome and I can access it very badly with other services.

Yes, it is really difficult to surf the Internet without Javascript. But I deliberately decided against it, because Javascript is not necessary for my information retrieval. I need information and I need it fast. I don't have time to load hundreds of single JS scripts, only to display advertisements, blink features and unnecessary menus. The web has evolved into a massive blob of additional features in recent years. That's ok if you want to be entertained. The browsers have adapted to it. But, so now I have to ask a question, why does news.ycombinator.com allow me to login and comment without javascript? Because the focus is on a good and fast service. And this is what the Alligator Browser is designed for.

Well, I simply sync my bookmarks file with Syncthing between PCs, and on my phone I usually only use the browser for quickly looking up random stuff. Email could work too, but I guess I just prefer to have the bookmarks cleanly separated from anything else.

I fully understand your point about JavaScript - I would prefer it if most websites were like this one. But for me, the tradeoff when blocking all scripts isn't quite worth it. A good ad blocker(and notification block) handles the vast majority of annoyances. The only thing I'm still missing is a way to block all videos by default. It would be nice to have that without just getting rid of everything.

[Dev] I'm not a fan of syncthing, but that's up to everyone. Why I used email is because I often have to send links from websites to other contacts. I click the right mouse button and send the link. I like to combine several applications to save time. At first it sounds like a marginal time difference, but it's the total time of a year. The browser has evolved as it turned out to be best for my very special way of working. I can't please all people and I don't want to.

I am not satisfied with the previous Javascript solution. Yes, an ad blocker can help, but this is at the expense of loading time. I hate to wait until a website is loaded. Since most videos are implemented as Javascript application, they are blocked by default in the alligator. I don't want to missionize you here either, because there are enough web browsers on the market. My main goal is to get to know other points of view so that I can develop a better product.

Having no visible toolbar / address bar is actually a pretty neat idea. When you think about it, it's not necessary for advanced users - it need only be shown when the user wants to interact with it.

That's true, although e.g. qutebrowser still displays the current URL because it has a small status bar anyway, so it just uses the remaining space for that. It doesn't have to be as large as in many common browsers though, I agree.

Whenever I install Firefox somewhere the first thing I do is remove half of the UI from the top area. I really, really love that FF has this feature.

Why do we need bookmarks when we have softlinks. They are the same concept, and an OS that makes a distinction, is a faulty OS, IMHO.

Ditto for tabs. The task bar already serves that. It't the task bar's flaw if it isn't hierarchic.

And actually, a directory already solves that too. Which even exists on Linux. (/proc) All you need, is a (filtered?) horizontal directory tree listing for the tasks/tabs and a sidebar with another directory that you can put softlink URL into.

Add a bit of window manager placement automation, and you got your browser.

And with JS, as a former pioneer web developer: A website whose HTML relies on a certain way of being presented or a certain interactive logic, is a defective website, full stop. The whole point of HTML, is that it is semantic markup, and semantic ONLY! E.g. an audio browser must work just as fine with a website. If one’s website fails at that, it’s because of disinfomatiom spread by the What(TF)WG and because of incompetence, and the causing people must be fired.

For me there's a sweet spot for software where you get something that's lightweight and configurable but still comes with features that are considered essential. Browsers without tabs or bookmarks don't tick the last box, something like qutebrowser does. In other words, I dislike bloat but I don't hate it to a degree where I'm willing to switch to something more limited just because it has fewer lines of code.

And JS may not be necessary and I wish that it would be used much less(if at all). But JS won't go away for some time and I still want to be able to use most websites. So I run a browser that supports JS and block everything I find too annoying.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com