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I had a similar experience in 2018. In fact, I think my application with them is still active, cause I also never heard back from them after my in person interview.

They had me come in at noon, said they'd serve me lunch, then directed me to a galley kitchen where there were some leftovers from something that was served the day before.

I kind of zoned out after that, cause I was hungry and also annoyed, but I remember being condescended to, everyone being late, and everyone seeming like they were in a huge hurry. Never heard a rejection or offer from them.

My ex has our dog, I told her to stop using Wag as soon as possible. I'm not trusting a company that disorganized with my dog.

A php stack is the right stack for 2017 or 2019 for a company like Wag. What would a javascript framework offer them? Their core product is connecting people and dogs. A php stack with laravel means they have a working website with authentication on day 1. What would a javascript framework offer them?

Emailing tests or documents is very common during the interview process if the company is a startup. Offer them a github link with the code if you want to standout.

Why apply without knowing the stack?

> Offer them a github link with the code if you want to standout.

Make sure it's a private GitHub repo, or you ask first. Many companies prefer their coding tests to not be published online. It happens, it's unavoidable, but companies can often get by with the same test for a while if people don't post them on GitHub too much.

Maybe I'm dumb - Can anyone tell me why PHP vs JS for a "generic" web application?

\In 2019 there are far far far more developers with real experience developing in Javascript vs PHP. There are obviously a lot of other factors in considering the base dev language, but unless you can make a strong case for PHP vs JS, I'm picking JS every time because in the generic case they both meet my needs but a lot more devs work with JS vs PHP. This is not a moral argument, but rather a practical one. What is the practical argument for PHP?

A PHP stack can maybe help you get acquired by Facebook, like a COBOL stack could ease an acquisition by an old insurance company.

There are far fewer devs with server-side JavaScript experience. When it comes to server-side for small startups, the syntax is irrelevant compared to the maturity of the ecosystem. Look how much of the web is still Wordpress.

PHP an older and more mature language. It also is synchronous so it runs similar to C/Java/Python.

Programming full stack with JavaScript requires a different programming mindset with its asynchronous nature.

JavaScript predates PHP by five years. 'Maturity' is a subjective quality in my opinion and I also think PHP is a hot mess. JavaScript is synchronous unless you specifically utilize its asynchronous parts. Asynchronous execution is possible with PHP

> think PHP is a hot mess.

Have you used PHP in the last 5 years?

I'm not trying to pick a side here, and I'm sure modern PHP is fantastic with Laravel and all that. But it seems to me that the PHP-advocates are failing to understand that impressions matter a lot to developers. I wouldn't touch PHP with a ten-foot pole if I can. Not because modern PHP is terrible but that the baggage of terrible PHP is still strong in my memory, and I'm not willing the re-evaluate PHP as my choice for backend because of that. Period. That ship has sailed.

Sure TS with something like Express has its disadvantages but I'm ok with it. It's the tool I use for a specific job and there's a lot more useful things to learn than another language & framework just for its sake.

I guess I'm coming from the perspective of having worked on terrible JS (serverside) code bases and then moved to modern PHP... I'm not calling JS a hot mess though. I'm sure there are great JS projects out there. It is really nice to use a framework again though rather than a loose collection of libraries..

> there's a lot more useful things to learn than another language & framework just for its sake.

Agreed.

You might be browsing the internet in an echo chamber. Javascript gets almost as much flak as PHP for the same gobs of terrible Javascript in peoples memories.

Both are old languages and both had years of low quality devs cranking out terrible stuff.

> But it seems to me that the PHP-advocates are failing to understand that impressions matter a lot to developers.

Not a PHP advocate.

But I do recommend people think carefully before they commit to either Javascript or PHP.

Both are about equally good/bad in my opinion (I have written significant Javascript as far back as in 2005 and PHP later.)

Both are useful and both have very very effective footguns built in (unlike Java, my personal favorite, who's footguns are less effectivebut who's more famous for its built in ball and chain).

A significant advantage of PHP is it looks ugly and people already know they should be careful around it so they aren't so easily tempted to start using it for everything under the sun like they are with Javascript ;-)

I wrote some PHP on Friday.

Interesting. Which version? Did you use an IDE (and an editor with good PHP bindings)? Was it a legacy project? Does the project use composer? What didn't you like?

> JavaScript predates PHP by five years.

Wikipedia tells me they're both from 1995.

This is all IMNSOHO: PHP3 was really the genesis of "PHP" which was 1997 with a decent parser, and I think the first version of what people refer to as "PHP" was PHP4 in 1999 with mainstream adoption in 2000. Many places were still doing VB6 with MS Access data stores.

So by the logic of your own opinion, Javascript would be seen as even less of a mature language than PHP because the "genesis" of JS was really the V8 engine and Node, which didn't happen until 2008-2009.

> and I also think PHP is a hot mess

That is a mighty strong statement when trying to big javascript lol

I just pointed out some misconceptions about both JavaScript and PHP but some folks are indeed touchy, I will agree with you there.

> I also think PHP is a hot mess.

More of a hot mess of a language than Javascript where every engine can apply their own rules and implementations, just like HTML?

Just because almost everyone uses V8, it doesn't change the fact that when you execute Javascript code, it's not guaranteed to run a certain way because each engine is based on recommendations and standards - not cemented rules. It's the same problem as having to write HTML/CSS for each browser engine.

The pool of js developers available include php developers.

Specifically node developers cost more and are far fewer in numbers.

I downvoted you because there is no "right" stack. All popular languages have good web frameworks. The right one to launch with is the one your team knows the best.

> I downvoted you because there is no "right" stack. All popular languages have good web frameworks. The right one to launch with is the one your team knows the best.

Surely there are more appropriate stacks for specific problem domains? Like how using R outside of data analysis is probably weird, or writing your microcontroller code in nodejs is probably a bad idea.

The law of the hammer exists, and if your tasks requires a screwdriver and all you have is a hammer it will be more challenging than need be.

You're correct but I was talking about language selection in the context of web development. There are, of course, specific domains that have language requirements.

I'm not sure that's the case with Javascript - there's plenty of microframeworks (express, hapi) and even a couple with bigger ambitions - like Sails.js

Last time I looked, none were comparable to Rails/Django/SpringBoot/Laravel

You are setting yourself up for a much harder employee market if you're choosing something fresh and hip, though. Finding skilled js people that have experience with your framework choice will typically be harder than finding a developer that knows php and Laravel. Imho if you have no specific reason to choose one stack over another, choose a very common one (for projects where you expect to need other people to join).

If they define themselves as a real estate company that has a website, sure, use a PHP framework.

If they define themselves as a technology company, which I believe they do, and they want lots of complex features for their services, and set an exorbitant valuation on that basis, then they better have the right infrastructure for that.

> Had no real way of submitting it other than emailing it to the interviewer as a zip.

Being good at email (ex: not relying on GMail, knowing basic things about line length, top-posting, signature, having your own domain(s), using an actual email client instead of webmail crap, Sieve filters and mailing list management, actually knowing how mailing-list based development works and being able to use (git) patch/diff, bonus points for offline syncing, 2x bonus for using a text client (3x bonus for xmh), 10x bonus for running your own server(s)) is a way better indicator of technical competency than the ability to sign up for a GitHub account and click a few buttons.

HTML email is a huge red flag for programmers.

On the contrary, I wouldn’t _usually_ expect a lot of value from someone who did all that.

My first intuitions would be that they’re likely reluctant to make practical compromises, slow to accept norms, and that they’re prone to chasing rabbits. They might have a role on a large team or for a very specific project, but there’s be some wariness for sure.

This is going to be a person who spends all day solving every problem my business doesn't have.

They are not applying for a job at sendgrid, or as an email implementation strategist.

Are they at least using a php framework like symfony or is it all spagetti?

The interviewer never told me. I never asked.

I interviewed with them. Their tech stack is Laravel. The whole interview seemed flaky. Now glad I got rejected.

Not using a PHP framework for PHP does not imply that it must be all spaghetti. There are programmers who can write clear, structured, maintainable code in straight PHP.