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Comment by chanri | Hacker News Reader

Just wondering, how many people here have used Airbnb? I would think a large number of HN people would use it.

We've been traveling the world since May 1st 2010, and have used it wherever we can (Vancouver, Melbourne, Thailand, ...).

It's a great idea, love it, and don't want to say anything too negative (it has far more going for it than against it). However, the one problem is that it's quite difficult to leave negative comments about anywhere. One of the places we stayed in... well... the room was great, but the people we shared the place with were NUTS! If you've ever seen the film Away We Go, well, one of the families in that film were the spitting image.

Anyway, we couldn't leave negative feedback for them because then they could leave negative feedback about us! (Although we'd been the perfect guests...). So you just end up leaving no feedback at all, which is what I have to guess all other previous guests of these people did: they talked about many previous guests, but still had 0 reviews / feedback.

>If you've ever seen the film Away We Go, well, one of the families in that film were the spitting image.

Just curious, which family in the film are you referring to? I only have a vague recall of them.

The one with the "family bed", who refused the stroller. Not that I have anything against that; to each their own.

Retaliatory feedback was a huge problem eBay faced. They "fixed" it by removing the ability of sellers to leave any type of feedback besides positive. It seems like an extremely difficult problem to tackle unless you're willing to intervene and investigate every time someone reports that feedback is retaliatory.

I tried when I went to NY a couple months ago. I contacted like 6 people and they all bailed on me ("bailed" in the sense that they had their apt listed as available on the day I wanted to go, but then couldn't offer it to me). It was a week before I wanted to go. I ended up paying for a hotel that was substantially more expensive, but it was definitely available.

I'd imagine this is part AirBnb's core problem. How do you reliably manage the flakiness of both travelers and sellers? How far in advance do you have to start scheduling your trip if you want to use AirBnb? Am I absolutely guaranteed a place to stay even if I pay?

I had similar experience with AirBnb in NY too. It was a week before I wanted to go and it took me about 10 requests to get one that's available.

Same for me in Sydney. I like to think if they can solve this problem they'll triple their growth rate.

I've heard about this dynamic a lot.

This is why somebody I know hasn't pulled the trigger on putting his place up: People aren't flaking so much as being extremely selective about who they rent to.

Basically my friend totally wants to go on AirBnb, but knows he will only offer to people he can semi-cyberstalk to his satisfaction/hope to be 3 degrees of separation from via industry/community circles (to make him feel comfortable).

Right now you don't have to rent to anybody you don't want to, even when you put your availability up for a certain time-frame, which is great. But it does confuse potential guests who get false positives for available places.

I think AirBnb needs something beyond ebay-style reviews to resolve this. The groups thing could be a good start (there are are interest/ community groups, like HN group, on AirBnb).

A coworker and I have had this same problem while trying to book a place for a trip in May. Places show up as available, but the owners then reply with "well, that's too far to tell, I might not even have this apartment then."

It you're not sure if it's available, why are you listing it as such? I guess the disconnect is that every person who does this is acting in their own interest and doesn't care about the interests of AirBnB or their customer experience.

It's really soured me on trying to use this, because I don't need to mail 10 hotels that say they're available on my dates, and go back and forth only to be told no. I hit a button and book it.

It's also bad that people like to write in the house rules section things like "I have a $75 cleaning fee" or "I require a $400 security deposit via paypal prior to checking in." I shouldn't have to pay a surcharge for the unit to be clean and in the advertised condition. A security deposit I can understand, but AirBnB should be brokering that via credit card holds rather than allowing cash exchanges between renter and owner.

If you're trying to compete with the hotel experience, simply having a lower price isn't the only factor involved.

I'd still like to give AirBnB my money and try this service, but after a week or two of trying to book something, they're making it really hard to do.

I had the same experience when looking for a place in NYC-- I think it's due to the fact that published availability dates are not consistent with what the property manager has, as they most likely have other sources of reservations.

I used Airbnb to book a room in an Austin Condo for last years SXSW. It cost around half a what a downtown hotel room cost (though was admittedly not quite as convenient).

I got in late the first night with no luggage (thanks airlines) so the guy I was staying with actually drove me to WalMart the next day to pick up some temporary clothes, insisted on buying me breakfast tacos and gave me a tour of Austin.

I used to work for a Fortune 100 company, travelled way too much and really grew to hate staying in hotels. Airbnb is a fantastic alternative.

I'd think it's pretty high as well.

Personally, I can't see the appeal apart from price. I'd take a hotel every time.

Am I the only one worried about rape/murder/theft with something like this as well? Maybe I am :/

I agree with the above but on the other hand, if I was searching for places to stay in a city and found out that an old friend of mine was on Airbnb for that city, I would jump at the chance. I haven't used Airbnb but I would really push an initiative to feature friends on the site via FB connect.

Friends don't generally charge each other money to stay at their place though, right?

Or maybe that's a difference between close friends and acquaintances--and many people have a lot of acquaintances for Facebook friends, so I can see it working out.

Maybe not a 1st degree friend but a friend of a friend or something like this.

A feature that finds out the "shortest chain" friend that rents out an apartment in your destination city would be interesting. But you need a social graph for that.

Sounds like a facebook app worth making. Rent out rooms to people that are at most 3 hops removed from you on FB?

Check out SecondPorch (secondporch.com) for a pretty nice execution of that concept, built around FB Connect.

If I was Airbnb I would acquire the above.

I don't mean to be snarky but how is rape/murder/theft threat different than your daily life? Someone is going to go overboard and sucker people vs randomly kidnap someone at a Wendys?

I live in a safe place. If I'm going traveling (To likely a more dangerous place), I'd be safer staying in some sort of 'official' establishment, such as a hotel. Rather than staying with random people. They could be irritating, unhinged, dangerous, murderous, thieving, perverted, etc

Random people scare me. Maybe I just assume the worst in random people. How many airbnb rooms have spycams installed in the showers? I'd bet it's more than in hotel rooms :/

It's just the same reason I wouldn't hitch-hike or go in an unlicensed taxi.

How are people working in a hotel not random?

They're vetted by the hotel, there's regulation, command structure, security in the hotel, they have an incentive to not do bad things (They'd get fired), they're (hopefully) trained, etc etc

Additionally, if the hotel is a big chain, there's a certain standard of service you can pretty much be sure of across hotels.

So IMHO, people working for a company who are trained and employed to serve the public, are quite different to 'random people'.

People have an incentive not to do things bad on Airbnb too.

It is called prison.

spycam in shower? I'd expect chance of prison is nil. Stealing wallet / jewelery / etc? Again, prison is a long shot.

I'm by no means saying it happens all the time, but I can see the incentive to use airbnb as a way to lure victims.

You mean like nurses/doctors (prime example of people who are trained and employed to serve the public) that kill their patients?

Some references to well-known cases:

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ve...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lainz_Angels_of_Death

Todespfleger von Sonthofen - http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/L/LETTER_stephan.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephan_Letter

Ever heard of Mechthild Bach? Can't find an English link right now.

Everyone's trained not to do bad things (it's called education), HR departments are not able to screen out killers, thiefs, rapists etc. In the end, people working in a hotel are a random selection, too. So whoever downvoted me, please reconsider.

I didn't say there were NO instances of trained employees abusing trust. Obviously there are edge cases everywhere.

If I'm going traveling to some strange dangerous place, a trained employee is going to be safer than a random person off the street.

I expect you were downvoted because you decided to interpret my comments as "trained employees never do anything wrong", rather than what I actually said, "trained employees are safer for you than random people".

I would much prefer to stay at an AirBnB place than a hotel even at the same price (though getting comparable accommodations for half the price is obviously a plus). I've met a lot of interesting people as hosts that I've gone out with, shared dinners with, etc. that I would've never had at a hotel. I can see how this may change as it gets more popular and mainstream, though.

I've used it quite a bit and have had nothing but good experiences, but I'm rather selective about where I want to stay. That said, I do think there is a problem with not wanting to leave negative feedback for fear of retaliation, and it certainly is going to be one of the biggest problems as they grow.

For reference I've stayed at maybe a dozen places in the last 9 months, mostly in SF, SD, and NoCal.

I have no interest in using it, but I may be a little odd that way. I prefer the corporate impersonality of hotels. I've stayed in "bed and breakfast" spare-room places before, and I've never really been comfortable with the experience. I don't like that personal touch with people I don't already know.

We found a great room in a Riad in Fes, Morocco using Airbnb. It was one of the most memorably places we stayed in that country, and the housekeeper there served incredibly good food.

I'm lying in bed at an airbnb place reading this thread. It's my first time using the service and it's been incredible. Good followup emails, owner's place was exactly as it was described and it's so much better (and cheaper) than a hotel. I will definitely use this again.

I was going to use it, but then I found that a 4 star hotel was going to cost me a little bit less($16 less a day). And the hotel was in the center of London, while anything cheaper on airbnb was about 1-2 hours away by train.

Granted, that's London...so the rent is high, which means the people have to charge more for their apartments.

Airbnb worked great for a condo in Hawaii over Christmas. It failed multiple times in NYC, though.

I've tried multiple times. There's yet to be an acceptable place where/when I'm going.

AirBNB worked well for me in NYC.

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