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Comment by abrichr | Hacker News Reader

Once the VC money dries up, I think it's likely that drivers and passengers will still want an app to facilitate the transaction. I've seen it suggested before that such an app could allow both parties to negotiate the rate between them.

Does such an app already exist? If so, why isn't it more popular? If not, why not?

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Interesting suggestion. It is sometimes said that Uber was started based on Kalanick's Randian free market ideas. And at a superficial level, it sorta looks free market - the price responds to supply and demand for instance. But interestingly, that price is being set by, effectively, a central planning process, not a free market. The soviet union didn't have the computing power to pull that off, but Uber does.

Of course, there is all of the regulatory capture and monopoly tactics which are also inconsistent with free markets, although perhaps not inconsistent with Objectivism (depending on your view).

A true free market version of uber would be interesting.

Ignoring subsidies that Uber pays drivers, if you let drivers set their own rates, I don't see how that's not worse for drivers. Whatever rates Uber sets, there is a willing driver 2 minutes away, so that price is clearly sufficient for a driver. Letting them set their own rates seems like it would just incentivize lower rates at a time when the gig is already pretty bad and hard to live on.

I wonder if there would be a way to allow someone to cap their amount they want to pay for a ride and the same for the driver ... I wonder if being able to schedule ahead of time and having a driver accept an exact job hours ahead would be interesting.

I can imagine a simple model where a customer requests a ride. The nearest 3 drivers get asked how much they want to take the fare (perhaps a simple UI saying "What would Bob have to pay you to get a ride to Brooklyn? [$12] [$15] [$20]"). Driver who offers the lowest gets the job.

Uber sets the middle choice to be their guess of the market rate, and the above and below options allow the driver to either undercut to be sure of getting the business, or raise prices to try and get more money.

Considering how much Uber is under pressure for employee vs contractor and unionisation, I'm surprised they don't do this.

> It is sometimes said that Uber was started based on Kalanick's Randian free market ideas. And at a superficial level, it sorta looks free market - the price responds to supply and demand for instance.

If you need to pump billions of dollars into the market every few months, it's definitely not free.

If the money is coming from the private sector and not the government then it is free.

It's coming from outside the market.

Free markets require agency on the part of the participants. Network effect businesses in many cases devolve to central planning, because it's more efficient.

You don't need computers to do this stuff. The problems and solutions that the Soviet Union faced in central planning are not dissimilar to what Uber faces in its corner of the universe. Fundamentally, Uber sells a product that is too expensive for the market to adopt in critical mass. So they implement price controls, first by flooding external capital, and then by squeezing the suppliers.

This is spot on. Uber deep down is only a logistics company. Maybe logistics with a price modeling underneath, but its not a ride sharing company. That's what they are using their logistics software for today (and now meal delivery) but as soon as they realize the can license their logistics software for pretty much any industry, they will layoff thousands and simply license software and raking in buckets of money for YEARS. This is where they will finally find true meaning in their valuation.

If the VCs are being bankrolled by Saudi money (via Softbank) that has noplace else to go, because no one wants it, the money might not dry up. With this in mind, Khosrowshahi may be right about Uber's sustainability.

In principle that sounds great. In reality, that introduces more steps as each price offer and counter offer produces a time delay and makes me think.

Right now the app follows KISS (keep it simple stupid) and "don't make me think" principles.

A free market price negotiation would introduce a lot more complexity.

One way I could see this working is if driver's set their own rate (per minute or per mile) and riders can accept or reject that rate.

This could be smoothed with some thoughtful UI design though.

Drivers could set their preferred areas and rates beforehand, creating an inventory of drivers.

For riders asking for a ride to a destination, they'd get a slider that has a preset 'Uber suggested fare,' based on their driver inventory. One could slide it up or down and see the wait time for a pick up and car quality change.

They can just hide it behind a non obvious ui and create it for compliance purposes. Effectively it will be the same since very few passengers or drivers will use it.

Not an app. But there are some WhatsApp groups in India where people post their requirements and the cab drivers reply to them.

The problem is how do you control for quality? What if the driver shows up in a filthy car, or they have a violent criminal background? I guess it could operate on a rating system, but the first wave of users would be taking risks.

Without either a company handling driver screening, or a authority handling licensing, aren't essentially just jumping into a random stranger's car - the one offering the lowest price?

Seems reasonable you could devolve Uber and Lyft into

1) Market makers matching drivers and riders with an open API 2) Multiple apps for drivers and riders which handle maps and payments

thought about this too. Like a mesh network thing where you're connected to drivers and customers in your immediate vicinity.

There has to be an opportunity for something that is distributed and open because I don't really see why this even needs Uber at all, taking insane cuts that should belong to drivers or be savings for customers.

I’ve already started to see price gauging on UberEATS in SF. Not sure if I was an A/B test or not, but deliveries which include both a service fee and delivery fee totaling $7/8/9 AND the UI defaulting to a $3 tip before delivery, just has me scratching my head.

Throw in surge pricing which adds ~$15 for even close (<10 minute deliveries), and you quickly see it falling apart.

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