Stop Using Internet Explorer | Hacker News Reader

Stop Using Internet Explorer

mashable.com

83 pointssrevo86 comments

Sigh... some services still require IE.

https://www.frbservices.org/fedline-solutions/service-setup/...

Not even Edge is acceptable. Then they throw in Java applets to broaden the attack surface.

I can not use the Croatian government website,[1] where one can buy a fishing licence, with anything other than IE. Despite the website insinuating that other browsers will work, if I just enable cookies (which I have!), only IE is successful.

[1] https://ribarstvo.mps.hr/default.aspx?id=5010

Shinsei bank in Japan requires IE (not edge) to use online banking. Macs aren't supported.

This seems to be the case for most banks in Japan. Also a lot of government services. Last year I ended up posting some documents to immigration because I could not get their online form to work.

Most JP banks I’ve used work fine with any browser - I use my UFJ account regularly in Safari, etc.

Shinsei is just a crap bank, and IIRC Mizuho can be a PITA depending on what you’re trying to do.

I remember, for immigration process, having to use IE to download a PDF form and install Adobe Reader to open it. Strangely enough, it also had to be opened on a desktop machine, laptops are NG.

I am able to load Shinsei in Chrome earlier this year, was this a recent change? Do you mean banking or another service?

That is not true, I am able to use Shinsei on Mac with Firefox just fine.

Shinsei corporate account or personal? Different systems

JRE, Flash and IE... what could possibly go wrong

Try to download a code signing cert from Thawte/Digicert...

sites that require iE is like 0.001%

I will - just as soon as our Sharepoint installation properly supports other browsers.

That ain't going to happen though, is it?

It sounds like you should try to upgrade to a modern employer.

That will solve his problem, but there are millions of employees out there relying on the same old stack and it isn't going to be replaced in the next few years, despite the failing support and the better alternatives. Replacing all those systems will take time and money in large quantities.

Replacing those systems will happen faster if they can't find people willing to maintain that old stack.

These old systems I see at gov and enterprise customers are rarely replaced when no one maintains them, they are held running by small miracles and large stitches. In many non-tech large organizations there are too many legacy systems for anyone to consider replacing them all. Go visit a large hospital near you and start counting how many XP machines they have as control systems and how many access applications they use to register maintenance schedules of those systems. Ever wondered about the OS version of the systems monitoring the water quality in your neighborhood?

The problem will be solved very soon, the new Chromium based Edge has an IE mode.

Interesting. I wonder how compatible the mode will be and with which version. Going to research it, thanks for pointing this out!

edit: oh well, nothing is solved: When these web sites are viewed in Microsoft Edge (Chromium), a full instance of Internet Explorer 11 is running and rendered within the tab.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/devtools-gui...

How does that not solve the problem that you detailed? You said replacing all those systems will take time and money. Edge is coming to every supported platform, so if you don't want to update your applications, you don't have to. I'm not sure what else you want Microsoft to do here. They can't make you update your software, only provide a high level of backwards compatibility for those that can't justify the expense on their side. MS is carrying your financial burden by building this out and supporting it. You're free to do what you please, even complain about it, but you aren't going to find better support than that.

I don't know why you got the impression that I'm somehow bashing Microsoft here. I don't think Microsoft have much better approach, having decide to move on from IE and their previous generation stacks.

Anyway, running IE within Edge doesn't solve the problem of users wishing to ditch IE but can't because of compatabilty - it is still running IE process. I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but it seems to be similar to the IE tab extension for Chrome, which exist for years. It just covers instance an IE instance within a Chrome tab. It is better from user perspective comparing to running IE in separate application but from security perspective it is just the same.

Edit: It still not clear how much will actually work, and the support is actually worse than I thought. currently only IE 11 fully support SharePoint, even in the latest 2019 SharePoint version.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint/install/browser-...

I didn't say you were bashing MS, nor did I suggest it. I just don't know what else you want them to do. They absolutely are bending over backwards so that organizations can't continue to use those ancient webapps. There's nothing else they could do from their side. They're going to have the burden of making sure that IE tabs continue to function and remain secure.

My company uses SharePoint and Chrome. What are we missing? As a light user I've not yet missed a thing.

great big list of stuff that only fully works in IE here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint/install/browser-...

Wow, that's a lot of core features. And it sort of makes sense because it's all in ActiveX, and ActiveX is not supported by Edge.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/deploy/emie-...

So an ActiveX control written in 1996 can run in Windows 10 Enterprise today via IE11. Neat... I guess.

> Enables a webpage to display a contact card and presence status for people. Integrates through client-side APIs with Office client and Skype for Business client.

It's crazy that modern sharepoint version still use ActiveX for something like this imo. I wonder if Microsoft's newer web APIs could be used to reimplinent this functionality without ActiveX

In Microsoft Teams they do, but I find the availability status sometimes conflicts with what the Skype for business app says.

There are quite a few other things that don't work with, such as calendar overlays - the ability to display multiple calendars on a single calendar page. LOts of other weirdnesses too.

I think you'll just need to rewrite that Sharepoint that app first.

Another "IE required" datapoint:

I recently had to buy an Authenticode code-signing certificate. The only way to download it was to add it to the browser certificate store and export it from there. And the only browser that the vendor supported for the add-to-store operation was IE.

Gonna go out on a limb here and say that anyone still using IE isn't going to be persuaded away from it by a fancy blog post.

Its also the stock bowser on the dominant os any one serious about web development must support IE.

The problem is when lazy developers use short cuts and make sites that only work on IE - quite how they mange to do this I have no idea.

> Its also the stock bowser on the dominant os

Which OS? The stock browser of Windows 10 is Edge not IE.

Oh sorry I did mean Edge

Isn't IE marketshare only a few percent if that?

Gonna take a wild guess that anyone reading HN probably hasn't used IE in the last decade aside from the purpose of downloading another browser

I am gonna guess, this is not true. Some are required to use it in corporate environment.

The corporate Standard Operating Environment grinds slowly and not particularly fine.

I worked in shipping and in fact the UPS shipping software will open IE for certain pickup booking tasks. I tried to use firefox or chrome with the same URL and it didn’t work.

During work there was never time to look into it in more detail, so there might be a workaround, but the general quality (or the lack thereof) when it comes to shipping software didn’t really convince me.

Not only does my corporate environment only support IE, but if I change my default browser to Chrome or FF (thank <diety> I have local admin rights), then the default security policy will revert the default back to IE11 whenever I reboot.

yup legacy is a killer.

I had to use it today to connect to some old activeX iLo console for a server. Our internal HR module also only works with IE.

On the corporate laptop I'm currently using, IE still is (or was, until recently) the default browser with no possibility to change that setting, despite company policy that we shouldn't use IE anymore. Wrap your head around that one.

Guess again. It's not by choice, though.

I use IE as my standard browser my chrome and firefox are set up for different usages with ton of plugins

Some might use it to test stuff still works for their users/customers.

Articles like this are a dime a hundred. I'm not sure why this was even submitted, much less how it made it to the front page.

ads

Can you actually delete IE from windows as the article recommends? I thought it was an integral part of the system?

You can disable IE11 under Settings -> Enable Windows Features from what I remember

IE from my understanding is basically a big wrapper around mshtml.dll which is a Windows component.

Serbian government's digital ID system only works in IE8 (or compatibility mode in newer IE browsers). It's required to do ANY kind of work with the ID cards, including digitally signing documents, filing reports and any communication with the government. Every store or service provider, bank, anything, MUST use IE to be able to read the card (of course, if they want to use a browser -- you can always use a proprietary program and libraries to do so in a native Win32 app. )

> Every ... bank ... MUST use IE to be able to read the card

That is not true. Raiffeisen has their own e-banking solution that works with all major browsers. It even supports macOS. It used to support Linux before, but I haven't tested since 2016 or so, so I'm not sure about that. I have been using it since 2013 or so with Firefox exclusively.

> It's required to do ANY kind of work with the ID cards, including digitally signing documents, filing reports and any communication with the government.

You can also use Firefox to submit tax reports. I have done it this year without problems. You need to use Windows, though.

You might have misunderstood me. You don't need IE to use the bank's services. The bank's employees have to use IE if they want to access ID card data. (though most banks use Win32 software exclusively, and don't use web apps, but Telenor Banka does, and they all use IE8).

Wherever you need to read the ID card, you cannot use anything other than IE. For example, if you have to verify identity, you cannot use Firefox to grant access to the ID card.

That's my experience at least.

> Wherever you need to read the ID card, you cannot use anything other than IE.

You can. In fact, you don't need a browser at all to read an ID card. You can download the CELIK application from Ministry of Internal Affairs and simply read the ID card directly:

http://ca.mup.gov.rs/download-lat.html

> For example, if you have to verify identity, you cannot use Firefox to grant access to the ID card.

When you submit tax reports, you can use Firefox or Chrome. Here, take a look at the list of supported browsers:

http://www.poreskauprava.gov.rs/sr/e-porezi/preduslovi.html

The tax submission procedure requires that you insert the ID card in the reader and enter your PIN during the process. It reads the card using some middleware software and then opens the browser with a special URL that contains your session token. The only requirement is that you set your default browser properly. In my experience, this is what most users don't know how to do, so when the middleware opens IE they think IE is required.

I stand corrected. Thank you and sorry for the confusion. :)

I'm assuming Edge is ok? It'd be great if the article mentioned that MS has a newer browser.

Edge is no longer a purely Microsoft product, it's now based on Chrome(Chromium) [0], or will be soon, I haven't followed this closely.

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/12/06/micro...

thats not quite true. Edge BETA is the chromium based.

Edge is still wholly MS

Sure, which is why I added "...or will be soon, I haven't followed this closely".

For people who have to deal with browsers for their business this is important to know what's coming in the near future.

That explains why the jquery based script I wrote to change the alpha channel of an image didn't work in Edge whereas it worked in all the other modern browsers I tested.

edit:clarity

Edge was never ok.

It reads like a hit piece to get people to switch away from Edge in case they think it's the same thing as IE. Everyone still calls it "IE", even though they're referring to Edge.

> Everyone still calls it "IE", even though they're referring to Edge.

Citation? Is this actually a thing?

Honestly I don’t believe you, mostly because your scenario involves people actually using Edge in sufficient volume that “everyone calls it IE” is supposed to be a meaningful thing.

My anecdata, everyone who I know who uses Edge (2 people, my parents on their Windows 10 machines) still call it Internet Explorer. They're tech savvy people too, but built up a habit with their new laptops. Hardly statistically significant I know though.

I bet if I asked around the office what the default browser that came with their new Windows 10 laptops that were rolled out last year, 90+% would say Internet Explorer. The icon even looks similar.

Now admittedly most of those people aren't using Edge, but that has a lot to with them thinking it Internet Explorer.

Changing the name of something in attempt to rebrand causes confusion.

I'm shocked.

And changing the name of something while keeping the icon/logo (almost) unchanged only adds to the confusion...

I think you just proved his point.

As a webmaster of a pure HTML + CSS static site, I can and do make sure my site still renders in Internet Explorer. Which means, of course, I need to have Internet Explorer to make sure any changes to the site design are still readable in IE.

I also have a copy of Safari for Windows to make sure my page is Safari compatible. I even have Opera 12 to make sure my pages look good with the older Presto rendering engine, as well as Lynx to make sure things look good in a text-only browser without Javascript.

There is a place for putting a full Javascript application and framework in a browser, but a basic “here is my resume and my blog which I update about once a month” page isn’t one of them.

ObShamelessPlug: https://samiam.org/

I recently worked on a project with a big finance/insurance company. Their IT still uses W7 and IE. "Well it just works for us"

Let's just say I was baffled - I really thought it's all a meme until I saw it with my own eyes.

The product we're selling is doing smartcards issuances via the browser, using an ActiveX app, so the user has to use IE. We've asked multiple time for the budget to do the change to a modern browser, but the POs has refused each time.

The people still using Internet Explorer will never read an article like this.

No chrome, no ie.. What is left is safari and firefox

Vivaldi, Palemoon, Brave

If you don't like any Chromium browser then Palemoon

Opera has been a great Chromium experience for me.

I see many recommending Brave. What are the benefits of it over for example Opera?

Palemoon has sub-par font rendering, at least on Win 7

vivaldi is closed source

On a related note, I just got an email from Atlassian, that they will stop supporting IE11 sometime early 2020.

Stop Using Chrome Immediately

Corporate Environment / Active Directory Federations / Windows Group Policy Enforcements / SSPNEGO or Kerberos or SmartCard Login with IE.

Yeah sure, the new Edge Chromium is light years away from this

stop using chrome, firefox, brave, just curl | awk.

or you know... patch it :-P

the patch is out there already you know.

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