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Comment by ajsnigrutin | Hacker News Reader

Putin is popular, because he's better than what was before (i'm speaking mostly of the old drunk). And also because he does stuff that a lot of russians actually like.

A lot of people (mostly westeners) don't understand, that if someone gets back "historic russian territory" from a "neighbor" you don't really like, and noone can do anything about that, that's a good thing for Russia. It's bad for the neighbors, it's bad for NATO, it's bad for everyone else who wants to influece Russia, but for Russia, it's a good thing.

It's the same thing with Trump... he does this, he does that, outrage everywhere, and in the end, EU is even more fuc*ed, Chinese send threats but can't do anything, and USA gets richer, old industries come back, people get jobs, get paid more, etc. And some wonder why he won.

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Citation for that last paragraph?

All I've seen is a shrinking coal industry leaving workers unpaid for their last month on the job[1], 25% tariffs slapped on our hardware imports [2] (causing a 30% drop in our sales) and kids being killed by Customs and Border Protection [3].

None of this is good for the USA or my fellow American

1 - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/us/kentucky-coal-miners.h...

2 - https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2019/08/07/the-long-term-im...

3 - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/20/migrant-chil...

Wish you'd asked for a citation for the whole dang comment. It's the exact kind of "sweet tasting" vitriol that has been sending people with a certain kind of persona into a feeding frenzy in countries all over the fucking planet. This phenomenon is a testament to how susceptible our collective amygdalae are to narrative manipulation. Doesn't matter how many historical precedents are exemplified, our species falls for it every time.

I did not care to dig into his first two sentences, but next time you see a comment like that, please ask them for citations and dissect what they said with your own citations.

We need to deal in fact, which requires a fair bit of effort to cite and write. Call out those poisoning the comments with vitrol and insanity, a harsh light reveals their lack of grounding in fact.

Unchecked IP and currency abuse by China, and unfettered illegal immigration are also "not good for the USA or my fellow American."

> kids being killed by Customs and Border Protection

Are you actually trying to claim that CBP is deliberately killing children?

Economic growth for 8 straight years of the last 7 years of the Obama administration and the first year of the Trump administration were good for the USA and our fellow Americans.

Is killing children okay if it's not deliberate?

> Unchecked IP and currency abuse by China, and unfettered illegal immigration are also "not good for the USA or my fellow American."

Please cite how the USA has been negatively affected by IP abuse or China's monetary policy. It seems quite similar to our prior tangoes with Japanese cars & Taiwan's electronics imports to the USA.

At this juncture we have pushed China into economic stagnation, while slowing our own economic growth.

> unfettered illegal immigration are also "not good for the USA or my fellow American."

We're a country of immigrants, our current "legal" immigration system is only a few decades old. Prior to that it was a free for all with nearly open borders (and no passports/visas), which bolstered the US economy mightily during World War 1 & World War 2.

Open Borders is key to being open for business, our current policy is locking out millions of people that could turbocharge our economy.

> Are you actually trying to claim that CBP is deliberately killing children?

Yes, when you choose to act in a way that you know kills some children needlessly, you are killing children. God doesn't look the other way!

"but for Russia, it's a good thing."

Are you sure? Haven't the resulting sanctions damaged Russia's economic growth and increased prices for consumers?

I can see the geo-strategic value of Crimea, but for the ordinary Russian citizen, where is the positive effect?

You have to understand that democracy, even the idea of it, is not native at all to Russians. I was there earlier in June. What struck me the most was how much reverence the Russians still have for all their erstwhile Soviet era dictators (Lenin and Stalin in particular). The former Tsars are particularly venerated.

The Russian people called Tsar Nicholas "little father". The assassination was an anomaly; the revolutionaries had to work very hard to hide the bodies because they feared the people would start worshipping the dead Tsars (which is exactly what's happening today).

Even with religion, 70 years of Soviet oppression and Russia is now as religious as ever.

So when you criticize Putin for crushing dissent, you have to understand that what might be oppression to us is perfectly normal for Russian people.

At this point, I have to ask: why do we assume that we know what's better for Russians (or any other nationality) than the Russians themselves?

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