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The difference between European and Australian drivers is not that Australians have to do 120 hours of supervised driving, but that the supervisor for the hours of driving in Australia is usually the parents of the learner. So any bad habbits from parents are taught between generations.

Compare that to the European system where you are requiredto hire a professional driving instructor to teach you (at great expense I might add) for the entire time you are learning.

And because of that, the culture in Australia seems to be that driving is a right where as Europeans seem to treat it as more of a privilege.

I got my license in Canberra, where I had the option to skip the driving test by doing enough hours with a qualified driving instructor. It was a big contrast to my previous struggles to get supervised drives with friends and family.

I had picked up a habit of going much too fast around every corner, because the owner of the car I was practicing in insisted that it must be done that way. She did it because that's what her brother taught her. The real instructor got rid of that bad habit very quickly.

It's a bit more expensive, but honestly it's so much quicker to get good and less stressful that I recommend it to anyone who has the option.

People lie in the log book, too. So I don't believe many actually do the 120 hours they claim.

I got my license the same way and 100% agree. It's a shame that Canberra is planning to move to the logbook system next year. I only know of one person from NSW who actually did the full 120 hours, and that was only because they took several road trips to other cities.

With Aussie lifestyle designed around the car, it is definitely a right. Euro lifestyles can support cars as an option.

I don't think that's true in UK. Just that insurance is so expensive that's it's far cheaper to get driving lessons.

It’s funny you mention Ho Chi Minh City. Vietnamese traffic seems lawless but I’ve come to the realization that people there follow different rules, that’s all.

Example: often you can cut the oncoming traffic off and turn left before them. This has the advantage of not having to wait 2 minutes in the middle of the road hoping that some poor soul will let you go. Instead, you just do it and people will slow down without honking at you (ironically, since they basically use the honk as a “I’m here too” signal)

Which one is better? Having left turns take forever or simply slowing down for 2 seconds when you cross an intersection?

Driving on motorbikes especially is infinitely smoother than in any other countries. I’ll take driving in Ho Chi Minh City over LA any day.

If you cut people off in the US people will honk, get unreasonably mad and chances are a police car will appear out of nowhere.

Considering Vietnam has twice the rate of death from motor vehicles as the USA, I know which rules I would choose to live with.

Only twice? That's a great rate.

Keep in mind that:

- Most Vietnamese traffic is on 2 wheels; motorbikes are inherently less safe, that's not necessarily related to traffic rules.

- "The [US] federal government estimates that per mile traveled in 2016, the number of deaths on motorcycles was nearly 28 times the number in cars." [1]

I would classify Vietnam as safer for a biker than the US.

That said, street safety can certainly be improved in Vietnam: people wear dirt-cheap helmets that protect nothing. [2]

[1]: https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/motor... [2]: https://noipictures.photoshelter.com/image/I0000TpoYiE1y2Nw

I drive in Australia, and I'm not like what you have described.

My general attitude is to be courteous. That doesn't mean I dont nip through on amber, or go over the speed limit by a couple kph, or park.

However I do behave as I would want other to behave. I don't drive too close to cars in front. I zip feed always. I indicate, even if nobody is around. I treat bikes and bicycles like other cars. I defer to busses. I slow down and wave pedestrians across if it's safe. Just good manners really.

Courtesy makes all the difference, but it's not easy sometimes. Too many drivers are happy to take advantage of 2-second gaps, or use an early indication of lane change as a sign to beat you to a gap.

I always wonder how people like that act outside vehicles. It's really no different to jumping a queue, but I bet of you did that to them outside a metal box they would call you out.

It really is different from jumping a queue, though. You have no means to call that person out.

In a queue, you can appeal to the emotions of a clerk, attendent, or some other agent with power. Further, if no power agent exists or is sporadic enough that they virtually don't exist (like, say, police on the same roadway you describe) then the action of calling out devolves to simple game theory in which the best mode of action is to simply not participate.

I challenge you to change your mindset:

>take advantage of 2-second gaps

that 2-second gap is simply a buffer. when buffers are filled do we call it 'being taken advantage of' or do we simply empty the buffer and continue our routine?

Inconsiderate drivers are the ones who need to be detected and sent back to driver training. They're the ones who try and pass when you're about to merge and leave you nowhere to go.

I also find overly courteous drivers to be dangerous, particularly when they ignore right of way.

There was a crossroad I had to go through daily that often had a long line of cars waiting because it crossed the offramp joining a major highway and a motorway. You would get idiots stopping to let cars go and actually causing accidents behind them because they caused the offramp to quickly congest out onto the highway.

It got so frequently bad that an enterprising local stuck their own Do No Stop cardboard sign there.

I've had a driver in the Brisbane CBD cross multiple lanes on an empty road and swerve at me when I was crossing halfway between red lights. Some people are just jerks I guess.

> strict standards getting a license, red p’s for 12-24 months + 120 logbook hours

It was an open secret (by secret I mean bragging) that people would forge their logbook hours - that hour rule only came in semi-recently so I'm not sure on the age of some posters here who haven't mentioned this.

Either way, P plates statically have a high propensity to get into accidents although from experience alone I would not say the majority of these are the "aggressive" drivers you see on the street. Maybe it's my own bias but it feels like the majority of P platers are trying to drive safe because of their inexperience, it's the full licence drivers who believe they know best and start showing aggressive behaviours.

It was 50 hours in NSW back when I did it ~20 years ago, and most people still forged it. It was mainly out of laziness though (not updating every time, just fill it in when you book the test).

I found the same thing - in the chezh republic, it was a far more free for all than any other urbanized country I had been to, however things ran way smoother because you counted on everyone else following no rules.