How to Buy an iPhone at the Worst Possible Time | Hacker News Reader

How to Buy an iPhone at the Worst Possible Time

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97 pointsshawndumas72 comments

Or you could just buy an Android phone supported directly by Google, like the Nexus One or Nexus S, get first dibs on OS upgrades, and not be locked into a carrier contract, not pay extra for tethering, and not pay a subsidy tax every month for two years...

That's* like the metric system or something. Won't work in the USA.

* Paying full price for your handset, that is.

It makes perfect sense if your carrier agrees to charge you a lower rate in exchange for not taking the subsidy. Otherwise you're just paying twice.

T-Mobile is the only major US carrier I'm aware of to offer this, (though it's kinda buried on their site): http://www.t-mobile.com/templates/generic.aspx?PAsset=Pro_Pr...

I know, I signed up for an ATT plan soon after landing in US, I already had a GSM Phone that I wanted to continue using. However, choosing to use my own phone did not reduce my phone bill in any way nor was i offered a cheaper plan.

So, why not take the free phone that comes with the contract anyway?

It's much easier to get a month-to-month contract when you're not getting the free phone. That in turn gives you nice leverage when you call to cancel in four months, complaining that you're paying too much.

^ This.

Except on T-Mobile, whether you need it or not, take the free phone. Then sell it for more then it's upgrade price (people not eligible for upgrades will be happy to pay $100 or more for a phone if they need it, even one you got for free, because its cheaper than what VZW/ATT will charge them).

carriers want you to take the subsidy bait. because it makes you less likely to jump ship than if you were only paying the monthly usage fee. I hope that having ~4 providers on compatible LTE bands will reverse that behavior.

Ah, so only 95% of Android users are getting screwed. Carry on then.

With iOS, you get one choice of hardware and (for US markets, at least since it´s come out) one choice of carrier. The hardware and software are controlled by the same company and you can get updates.

With Android, this option is also available in the form of the Nexus series... you get Google hardware, T-Mobile, and you can get updates. However, you can also get hundreds of other phones across different carriers and manufacturers and also varying upgrade options.

Stick with the single company option if you don´t want to get ¨screwed¨ as it´s available too.

iPhone is also one special phone, so why compare it with the whole range of Android phones, rather than particular Android phones?

If one maker produces a crappy Android phones, all Android phones are bad?

It is a disadvantage that there ARE bad Android phones, but there are also good ones. You probably have to invest a little bit more research then when you just buy the latest iPhone.

If virtually all Android phones stop receiving updates before their 2-year contracts are up, the Android ecosystem is bad compared to the iOS ecosystem. Much of this thread has focused on the problems this causes for users, but it's worse for app developers to have so many phones out there running old OSes.

Where in the US can I get an unsubsidized Nexus S that won't cost me a couple hundred over the retail price? Can I just go to Best Buy and say I don't want the contract - just the phone? I find it odd that Google sells dev phones but only the ADP2 and the Nexus One. Why not sell the Nexus S directly to devs as well?

Edit: Thanks for the responses about being able to go to BB and get just the phone at the unsubsidized price. This was the answer I was looking for as it wasn't clear to me that this was an option and I was just more confused that Google wasn't selling it as an option for devs in their marketplace.

Unless I'm missing something?

Introducing the Nexus S. Starting at $199.99. Only at Best Buy®. Also available without a 2-year contract for $529.99

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Google+-+Nexus+S+Mobile+Phone+-+...

The options on the Best Buy website seem to imply that you have the option of purchasing the phone for $529 without signing a two-year T-Mobile contract.

The site actually breaks though if I try to proceed further than this, so who knows.

I'm not sure which price you are referring to as "the retail price" here; if you are referring to the $199 subsidized price that comes with signing a two-year contract then by definition any unsubsidized phone will be hundreds of dollars more.

I bought my Nexus S from Best Buy, no contract or anything to sign except the receipt. I don't even have a plan with T-Mobile; I use a local carrier that runs on T-Mobile's frequencies. I paid retail price ($529+tax), and walked out of the store in less than 10 minutes.

You can walk into Best Buy and just get the phone. No contract. It's $530 + tax I think.

I find owning a Canadian iPhone in the US to be a great proposition. I never worry about "on-air updates" one day bricking my phone. I have no mobile contract. I can also resell my phone and expect to recover a lot of the value.

Combined with a Google Voice account it's just awesome!

Do you have any mobile voice/data service? Prepaid? Or, just use wifi?

I'm currently on T-Mobile pay monthly and have EDGE, which is enough to use with Google Maps. When I need faster service, there's often WiFi, or I can fire up my Clear mobile WiFi hotspot, which also doubles as my home internet.

Grrrr...

Google could help things by releasing a umts band 5 version of the Nexus S like they did the Nexus One. The current Nexus S isn't an option where I live.

They never released a 5-band phone; they released a second 4-band model that used different frequencies to be compatible with AT&T.

Edit: thank you for the correction

Not 5-band - umts band 5, aka 850MHz. The first Nexus One supported only umts bands 1, 4, and 8. Bands 1 and 8 are European. Band 4 is North American AWS, but only T-Mobile in the US and Mobilicity and Wind in Canada operate band 4 networks.

Band 5 is the more common 850MHz band used by AT&T in the US and Rogers, Telus, and Bell in Canada.

The first Nexus One supported bands 1, 4, and 8. The next one supported bands 1, 4, and the critical 5. The current Nexus S supports bands 1, 4, and 8, and is mostly useless in Canada. And all of us up here would just really, really, really like it if Google would release that band 5 version.

Pretty-please, Google?

Edit: ack - corrected a bit

My Droid Incredible got 2.2 pushed out within a few weeks of when I bought it (mid september). Get your Droid from a quality company and expect good results. Get your Droid from some second-rate gadget company and expect to be stuck with 1.6 forever. Seems like a buyer-beware issue, not an Android issue.

> My Droid Incredible got 2.2 pushed out within a few weeks of when I bought it (mid september).

And what's the status on the official 2.3?

like the Nexus One or Nexus S

Which doesn't help those of us that actually want to stay with AT&T and still be able to use 3G. (Yes, we do exist).

The Nexus One is available in AT&T compatible 3G frequencies.

Really? Where? Every last unlocked phone store on the web that I've checked is out of stock with the AT&T compatible version (which shouldn't be a surprise given that it's out of production).

Can you post a link?

Nobody sells them brand new, but there are plenty of them to be had on eBay: http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=nexus+one+att

Nice trolling attempt :) Of course anyone that visits HN knows that after buying an Android phone, you just go to xda-developers and get free rom updates from the 4-5 different cooks there. Next phone I'm buying will be determined by the number of people that visit the phone's rom development forum :)

Heh, now that you say it, I actually looked at the topic counts on the device forums over at CyanogenMod recently to help me decide which phone to buy. Was considering the HTC Desire HD, but it seemed to have way too few threads, so I went with the Nexus S. Figured that's a safe bet :)

The genius of the troll here is that he shows the release cycle of the iPhone, but below he shows the release cycle of every Android manufacturer, thus creating visual clutter which instantly gives a negative impression on the viewer and thus you feel an instant pang of agreement.

while I agree with you assessment, isn't the smart phone battle presented as between "iPhone" and "Android" in almost every comparison, including (especially by) Android fans?

No, only by John Gruber.

As an Android fan I don't even know if the iPhone still exists. It can't run any software I need and won't work with the infrastructure I have setup, so its existence is meaningless. Except, perhaps, that it will lower the price of nice 3" screens.

Really, my eye is on the Next Cool Android Phone instead, because I can buy one and I won't have to make any compromises.

Really, my eye is on the Next Cool Android Phone

I think that was FraaJad's point; you probably don't care about the next HTC Android phone but the next Android phone regardless of vendor. While the iPhone gets one new model per year, there are three or four Next Cool Android Phones per year. Thus the original article isn't a troll; it reflects the way Android users actually think.

In overall measures, yes, but most people don't have multiple phones.

Alternative interpretation: I can buy an Android phone at any time and be sure I'm getting something reasonably current, whereas I have to track iPhone release schedule rumors to avoid paying full price for a year-old model. Trolling is fun!

No mention that Apple's free iOS updates will turn your phone into a sluggish brick.

At least Apple gives you the option. Many Android phones either can't be upgraded at all, or aren't on any kind of unified release schedule, so you never know when you're going to be able to upgrade.

The only Android phone analogous to the iPhone is the Nexus line directly from Google, and it's future is far from a sure thing.

If you aren't happy with your release schedule, you can download a custom ROM for your device that implements the new version of Android. I use CyanogenMod 6.1 (Android 2.2) on my G1, which officially is still on 1.6. It's not very bad for me, a bit sluggish but definitely still usable and workable.

Yup, that's what I do. I have an HTC HD2 that shipped with WM6.5 and am running Android 2.2 on it now. Just a few days ago some hackers figured out how to run WP7 on it too.

I know Android supports OTA updates -- which I really love, btw -- but I'm entirely unfamiliar with the custom ROM process. Does it involve anything like "jailbreaking" your device, or are you able to simply install it.

What I'm wondering is if it's something I could have my mom do. That's kind of my litmus test for whether something is a mass-market solution, or if it's something only geeks will do. If it's not a mass-market solution, I'd argue that the chart designer's point still stands. Jailbreaking or rooting your device to support an upgrade cycle isn't exactly a solution for most people.

It does have its issues and is probably not something that you should recommend universally. However, most Moms don't even know when a new version of Android has released unless you tell them, so it's probably not really an issue for them.

The process differs from device to device. Most of the time it will include pretty advanced stuff from the Mom's perspective, things like commandline usage and installation of bootloaders.

That said, it's not very hard for your average Linux user. Just follow the tutorials.

I disagree strongly regarding the Android version issue and moms. My mom, cousins, and co-workers (non-programmer) all seem to upgrade their iPhone iOS without issue. I would expect the same from Android.

Uh, do they all use jailbroken iPhone versions? A standard Android upgrade is easy and great. Rooting your phone and replacing with a custom ROM isn't at "Mom" skill level, just like jailbreaking an iPhone isn't "mom" skill either.

No, they don't run jailbroken iPhones. That's my point. They don't need to in order to get the latest OS, but you often do with Android.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/17/ios-android-breakdown/

When I rooted an EVO in June, the process was comparable to launching a space shuttle. It might be easier now but probably not Mom-able.

(if you aren't happy with your release schedule and you have a phone that allows custom ROMs or you use an exploit)

Who are the 42 people who upvoted this, that's what I'd like to know. This is so obviously trolling that I can't even begin to refute it.

This reminds me of an analysis I heard on the radio yesterday.

The synopsis is that it's better to offer people less choices, because given more choices, people are more likely to be unhappy with the one they choose. Apple does a really good job of handling that.

If you were to only single out one manufacturer and line, say Motorola Droids, the chart would look exactly the same. But since there are 5-6 manufacturers offering good Android phones, it seems disappointing that there are new ones coming out right after yours. Really, it's a good thing.

I felt regret at buying the Android phone I did, as the Nexus S came out 3 months later. But you have to buy one sometime!

This is also why America has only two large political parties.

That's widely considered a side effect of the system:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plurality_voting_system#Effect_...

That was sarcasm.

As an aside, Duverger's law appears to not hold in Canada, which is FPTP (regrettably IMO) but nevertheless has seen repeated rise of major third parties (CCF/NDP, Reform/Alliance who now de facto hold power).

Not trolling, really, but - In America, what is the upside to buying an unlocked Nexus? AFAIK, my plan options will be the same price whether I have a contract or not, so really I'm just costing myself an extra $330 dollars. OK, so I get to "choose" carriers, but again, if I choose not to use T-Mobile, won't I be stuck with edge?

Canada here, but - here's one scenario.

One of the local carriers, Wind Mobile, added a plan in December that includes a lot of goodies - unlimited calling in home areas, unlimited text, unlimited data, etc. - for $40/mo.

http://shop.windmobile.ca/ProductCatalog/VoicePlans/PlanDeta...

This is miles ahead of the competition - the catch is that Wind coverage isn't great, but not an issue if you rarely leave the metro area.

At least 3 of my friends have told me they would love to switch, but don't want to pay the cancellation fees for their current providers.

That alone is reason enough for me to avoid multi-year contracts - even if I don't end up ahead financially by switching to better deals, I have almost a philosophical objection to this kind of coercion.

To relate back to the original post, the salesman at Wind told me that they have no plans to update any of their phones. Which is why I'm on Mobilicity which offers a Google phone.

Which is why you upgrade your phone yourself.

Which is a direct copy of the Christmas plan offered by Mobilicity. Boy, it's nice to have competition in Canada again.

AFAIK, my plan options will be the same price whether I have a contract or not

The "Even More Plus" from T-Mobile are contract-free and $20/month cheaper than their on-contract equivalents. You save $480 over 2 years, well above the difference in purchase price, and have no ETF issues if you need to cancel.

if I choose not to use T-Mobile, won't I be stuck with edge?

Unfortunately yes.

T-Mobile plans are actually about $20 cheaper without a contract. (They're pretty quiet about this.) Also, there's value in being able to switch carriers without penalty at any time if, say, you decide to get a different phone a year from now.

> Not trolling, really, but - In America, what is the upside to buying an unlocked Nexus? AFAIK, my plan options will be the same price whether I have a contract or not

I haven't seen anything else yet (though I might just have missed it) in western Europe. There are even countries (e.g. Belgium) where you don't get pack-ins (so the phone is full price) and the contract price's as expensive as in subsidized countries.

On the other hand, buying your own phone means you're not forced to remain with your carriers for the standard 24 months (that probably is more of an advantage in europe, where all carriers are on the same GSM bands, so the pain of switching amounts to getting a new SIM and telling your old carrier to shut down your account)

"I haven't seen anything else yet (though I might just have missed it) in western Europe."

Actually, it's very common in Europe. They're called "SIM only" plans. They don't include a phone, but are way cheaper.

Example: http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/shop/sim-only-plans/all-sim-plans

"There are even countries (e.g. Belgium) where you don't get pack-ins (so the phone is full price) and the contract price's as expensive as in subsidized countries."

In Belgium, operators are prohibited from selling subsidized phones. Instead, consumers buy their phones full price and sign up for a SIM-only plan.

Example: An iPhone 4 16GB costs Euro 640 ($850) at Mobistar Belgium. Their iPhone plan costs Euro 45 a month ($60). The plan includes 6 hours of outgoing calls (incoming calls are free), 600 text messages and 500MB 3G data. Spread over 2 years, that would be the same as paying $95 a month for a plan with a subsidized phone. That's about the same as it would cost in Belgium's neighboring country, The Netherlands, where phone subsidies are allowed.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&tl...

> Actually, it's very common in Europe. They're called "SIM only" plans. They don't include a phone, but are way cheaper.

They're not "way" cheaper. They provide more service at the same price and no phone. Here is the full grid: http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/shop/mobile-price-plans/all-plans...

> In Belgium, operators are prohibited from selling subsidized phones. Instead, consumers buy their phones full price and sign up for a SIM-only plan.

No, that's the point, you can't get subsidized phones and it still isn't cheaper.

> Example: An iPhone 4 16GB costs Euro 640 ($850) at Mobistar Belgium. Their iPhone plan costs Euro 45 a month ($60).

Which is the price of a plan with subsidized phone in France with Mobistar's parent company (orange) [0]

Origami Star starts at 39€ giving access to a 16GB iPhone 4 for 229€ [1]. Though for the same price you do get more voice in Belgium.

[0] http://iphone.orange.fr/forfaits.php

[1] http://www.orange.fr/bin/frame.cgi?u=http%3A//sites.orange.f...

Android device support really depends on your carrier. Some carriers are MUCH better than others at releasing updates.

If you're willing to go the unsupported route, most popular phones seem to have unofficial ROMs available. You can definitely get Froyo on your G1, and you might even be able to have Gingerbread.

I think that the trick with Android is to get a phone that seems like it will be pretty popular. Don't get a cool but oddball device (I have a Droid Pro, which fits into that category, and a Droid2, which seems to be pretty well supported by the ROM community).

He really needs the WebOS chart where the next phone comes out exclusively on a different carrier.

iOS 3 update wasn't free - $5 or $10 IIRC.

Only for iPod Touches, not for iPhones.

troll...

Yeah, but then you have to have an iPhone.

Or you could buy an android phone and have it break with 5 months to go on your contract. You can't get it repaired because the warranty is expired, you can't upgrade without paying full price of $500, and you can't leave the contract.

So you learn to live with 1/4 of your "touch"screen being not touchable at all--move your apps to the left side, get an app that lets you answer the phone without swiping, and forget about playing games or ever pressing the search button--and you hope that the new verizon iphone will create a glut in the used market.

Is there some reason you can't pay for an out of warranty repair? I don't think products breaking outside the warranty period is Android specific - if you dunk an iPhone a year after purchase you'll be spending dollars on a repair.

Wasn't offered at Verizon, but it could have been an unhelpful salesperson. If not them I can probably find a 3rd party repair. Don't know why I wasn't considering this, thanks for pointing it out.

I wasn't trying to trash android, just annoyed at the whole lock-in/upgrade scheme.

They usually want you to pay for insurance so they make these things difficult without such plans. The insurance has been worth it in my experience -- it adds $7-$10/mo, but covers a lot of damage that the warranty excludes, and you don't have these hassles or worries after warranty expires. I agree that it's a greedy, crappy scheme, but that's how the carriers want you to get your phone "repaired".

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