Once the spell is broken, the conserved energy and improved focus and control changes everything.
The mind is indeed a wonderful servant but a terrible master.
A detailed description in this article on the concept of Mind: Philosophy of Mind: A Jain Perspective
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/369b/7abd19f494d8b6d0f36115...
Vipassana practitioners believe in generating their own truths as the nature of the mind reveals itself through meditation.
It refers to a particular style of meditation, as taught by a particular teacher and his acolytes - a form of no-self insight mediation, based on a systematic examination of all the things that might constitute a self. It also refers generally to "insight" meditation, where "insight" might depend on whether you are training in a mahayana or hinayana tradition (in hinayana, it's insight into no-self, in mahayana, it's insight into emptiness). It might refer to silent but discursive reflection, based on instructions; or it might be a concept-free state of "resting the mind", arising spontaneously from various kinds of shamatha/samatha (broadly, mental calming) exercises. No doubt the the term also has divergent meanings in other Indian practice traditions.
So why a 10-day vipassana course, rather than (say) a nine-day course? Is it a particular brand of "vipassana" that you are suggesting? In what respect is it a "course" - do you get a certificate at the end? Is there a test?
The particular style of meditation referred to in the article is one I've never heard of before; BWV, or "Brain Wave Vibration". Oh dear, that sounds suspiciously like woo, so I'll google it.
Hmmm. Apart from this NIH paper, I can't find anything about BWV that doesn't reek of hype or woo. Why did the researchers choose this particular obscure style of meditation? Judging by their names, it seems that many of the researchers are Korean. Perhaps BWV was invented by some Korean sect derived from buddhism. As far as I can tell, BWV is really a form of guided shamatha, incorporating physical movement. That's not unusual; both shamatha and vipassana are often performed while walking (saves leg stiffness from long periods of sitting). Calling it "yoga" doesn't help much; that's an even looser term than "vipassana". In both buddhist and shaivite traditions, all types of meditation are forms of yoga ("yoga" in Sanskrit just means "union" - or "yoke", like the wooden apparatus that unites two cattle for ploughing work).
I'm aware that various styles of meditation have been productised and commercialised over the last couple of decades, and are now marketed for profit to knowledge-workers, executives and the like (i.e. suckers with not much time, but with money to burn). I'm deeply suspicious of these trends. If meditation costs anything, it costs time.
Personal declaration: for about 30 years I used to do a lot of meditation in a buddhist tradition, but I think I've fully recovered from all that now.
When I was taught mindfulness, it was initially mindfulness of breathing; a way of calming the mind. A while later I realised it was a basic part of the buddhist approach to morality; how can your action be correct if you have no idea what you are doing? - So I was taught to become mindful in everything - cooking, programming, walking, listening etc.
Mindfulness in programming seems to be very difficult!
The "mindfulness" that therapists use seems to be a form of shamatha (calming the mind), specifically mindfulness of breathing, usually with spoken guidance from the facilitator (after all, they have to do something to earn their fee).
Learn to be mindful (of whatever) while you read/write comments on HN and I can already say you are a pro.
What's the difference?
No-self is a form of emptiness; "emptiness of self", as you might say. The belief in a self is considered to be the root of suffering, so extinguishing that belief extinguishes suffering. This is the culmination of the path of the "hearers" - those who heard Sakyamuni speak.
The mahayana teaching on emptiness goes further. Not just the self, but all phenomena, arise dependent on chains of causation with no beginning; nothing has independent existence. Nothing can be relied on, everything is like models made of tissue-paper. Various kinds of logical reasoning have been developed to get this kind of perspective.
Insight into this kind of emptiness includes insight into no-self, because the self is a phenomenon too, and one that is empty of independent existence like all other phenomena.
Realisation of the emptiness of all phenomena is said to engender compassion. One's personal suffering might not diminish at all.
Incidentally, I used the term "hinayana", which can be translated as "narrow path", and is considered to be a put-down by some people. I do not mean it as a put-down, I am just using it as a term for those kinds of Buddhist teaching that don't embrace the doctrine of emptiness. I think that all such forms of Buddhism are now historical; in particular, I have been told that the Theravada teachings that are current especially in South-East Asia are not the same as hinayana - that Theravada includes significant mahayana influences.
I have a health resource, stemming from obvious stress hormone reduction.
Its a Sunday morning here; i will leave you for now with a registration website for a 10 day course: https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/courses/search
(It is near free, fees are commute, white clothes and a very optional donation, finishing a course is considered payment enough)
I must warn that it’s not easy. I thought a meditation retreat would be a great way to unplug and take it easy but the schedule is intense and meditating that much requires great energy and focus.
Highly recommended but know what you’re getting into :)
From the spiritual point of view (I follow Dzogchen), once you realize you are not your ego (which is a system of feelings, thoughts, perception etc.) but it is yours (a thing you own), learn to observe it from a distance and realize what you are (by turning your inner gaze back to the point where you observe the ego from) this will become obvious and all left to do is practice. Or the fivefold practice of Dawa Gyaltsen will give a clue.
Practically it's like learning to swim - the first time you are put in the water you don't know you can but as you persist in your intention and keep on trying the skill develops and grows into a whole new dimension of freedom.
From the scientific point of view all the feelings are chemical reactions involving substances like serotonin (produced from 5HTP/tryptophan), dopamine (produced from DOPA/tyrosine), norepinefrine, acetylcholine, GABA, glucose etc. with help of some other chemicals. E.g. it is not really hard to stop being angry at somebody when you realize the cause of your anger is merely a chemical imbalance rather than the person you are angry at. Even if he has actually done something wrong you don't have to actually be mad - you can act reasonably (even punish him or exclude him from your social circle if this seems rationally necessary) while maintaining great mood (which would be particularly easy if you were on xanax or something - just a proof it's all about chemistry) and maintaining great mood probably is what you actually want. As soon as you start thinking this way you just stop taking your emotions seriously (which doesn't mean you can't enjoy pleasant ones) and they (the unpleasant and impractical ones) fade away as you stop dedicating attention to them. The more you practice this the less of them even emerge.
I would say sit as long as you feel like it, except that doesn't really help initially. Maybe put on a non-intrusive background track that fades out when time is up? And do take your time when coming back; start by listening, then opening the eyes slowly etc.
Same goes for waking up from regular sleep, but refusing alarms in this society is a pretty serious compromise.
On another note, I have spent a good deal self-reflecting more or less alone in the dark with me and my thoughts. From what I understand on some parts of the web, this pretty much equates to ”meditation”. While others describe it differently.
I guess I could download HeadSpace and be more explicit about it, but I do anyway think I have derived some mental benefits from the above behavior. Like, being more comfortable with myself. But I don’t think I am doing meditation since I don’t get all benefits as actual meditators.
Just as a reference to the OP of this thread, about being able to distinguish oneself from the voices in one’s head... I think there are more benefits in meditation.
Two phrases that have been very relevant to my practice:
"Being lost in thought is the opposite of concentration."
"Lost in thought is not meditation."
The above is not meant to imply that there aren't benefits to spending time lost in thought.
[1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yoga-Consciousness-Practices-Enligh...
Sitting as long as you feel like is not beneficial, because most of the actual work will happen when you start to notice your agitation and at that point is when you will just want to get off the cushion. Stick through it, and watch that agitation and your monkey mind go crazy, until the end of the timer.
I recommend starting with a short timer, 10 minutes, then slowly increase the time.
I had to sort of force myself by going to live in an ashram full time for a while.
That's amazing to me, really! I've considered doing 10-day sits before (vipassana most likely) but never got the courage to do it. Part of the reason being nicotine addiction (which would add a whole other dimension to the challenge). Once I sort out that bug out (and get a few levels higher in Hindi on duolingo) I want to look into it again.
But I recommend Champix/varenicline. It works.
I think that's the wrong way to put it.
You can observe those thoughts much like you can observe your hand with your eyes. That does not make your hand any less part of you than those thoughts.
IMO the vast majority of the chatter in our minds are like any other involuntary process of our bodies. The difference is that we are culturally conditioned to identify with our minds and not our intestinal processes.
This is a form of self enquiry to separate yourself from what you are not, to break the spell of identification. Some people are identified with not only their bodies but with their children but to their car, house, job, even the products of their work. These are all not you.
After seeing what you are not, you start seeing what you really are. For that you will need this preparation work.
There is really no separation between the mind and the body.
We still don't fully understand consciousness, but we know most of our decision are taken unconsciously well before the conscious mind is aware of it. There are a myriad of books about this, but this wikipedia article is a good introduction:
If that's the case then congratulations are in order, most people have to put in some effort to get there. Maybe you're a natural, depends on where you came from. Being left alone to do your thing in a sane environment makes it easier to stay in touch.
Whatever the case, there's never any harm in sitting still with closed eyes for ten minutes.
Thanks for putting it this way. I definitely remember my brain used to do stuff like that, when I was a teenager, but it is not a state I can deeply relate to decades later. I recall making a conscious decision, around the time I was 19, to not get hung up on that stuff because it was not pragmatically useful to my physical life. So perhaps I have put some effort into "getting there" and it was just so long ago I've forgotten what it was like.
I suppose it's not hearing voices that makes you crazy, but when you start listening to them and doing what they say...
Why not say "seeing movies" or "feeling emotions" or "imagining smells" or whatever form a specific thought might take though? Seems weird to only consider vocal thoughts.
There are other aspects to thoughts too, like links and non-picturable things that one seems to grasp but aren't present in a sense-based way -- for example a "hypercube that smells of snozzberries", you can't see it, it's not making a sound that you've heard before, the smell is not something you know, etc., but to some extent you still behold it.
The thing is, you don’t notice that those voices aren’t you until someone points it out. And you see it most clearly through meditation. Because when you think your mind is empty, it’s not, you’re telling yourself tales constantly. At least I am. But I never thought I was until I sat back and observed how my mind was working.
It’s like those drawing that ask if you see a cat or a woman and you see a cat. But then someone points out the woman and you just can’t unsee the woman. That’s the best analogy I can find at least.
As I said, I am early in experimenting with meditation, but it really feels like a game changer.
I’ve tried to read a variety on the topic. Being that I’m of the more secular bend, I’ve really enjoyed the Sam Harris book and app, Waking Up. If you want an intro, start with either. If you’re of a more spiritual bend, I’m sure there good other options.
But we were warned that if they didn't fade, or they were being negative or harmful, that is a red flag that should invoke some action.
> Beginning meditators often think that they are able to concentrate on a single object, such as the breath, for minutes at a time, only to report after days or weeks of intensive practice that their attention is now carried away by thought every few seconds. This is actually progress. It takes a certain degree of concentration to even notice how distracted you are.
—Sam Harris
I don't follow this logic. The brain is a parallel system, parts of it remain active while not thinking. And observing thoughts has evolutionary usefulness for meta-learning (learning to learn, learning to reason). It's just one more layer in the hierarchy.
By your logic, I am not the brain because I am observing its activity. But without it I am nothing, how does that work out?
I think it is wrong to think I am just the brain - I am the brain plus the body, because the brain is formed inside the body, fed sensations and learned everything from the body. And the body itself is part of the environment, again, the brain learns everything from it and depends on it to develop. Even the perception of shape, sound, movement, hunger, language and society - they all come from the environment and the body and shape the mind.
So I am at the junction of brain, body and environment, not a detached observer, and my purpose is to learn how to act optimally in all situations in order to keep my body alive and continue my genes. If I didn't, then my genes would have a worse chance of survival and filter our from the pool, thus they must fight for survival. We've been shaped by survival and environment. The 'I' is the result of this optimisation process in action. If 'I' didn't get up in the morning and take something to eat, work in order to have what I need, then 'I' would die. So 'I' is the caretaker of the body.
I don't know your relationship with the concept of "soul" (and I'm writing this way to be careful), but many of us sometimes find it really useful to be able to talk about who we really are.
Agree completely.
"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone" - Blaise Pascal
I have a problem that after lots of meditation I become more disengaged and "spacey". Its fine to look at myself in a detached way, but sometimes I want appropriate engagement with those feelings. During stressful times I don't end up more engaged or challenged, I just feel "checked out". This became pervasive in social situations as well.
Even through text alone I sense there is fear of seeing what exactly happens when the thoughts quiet down. You'll be safe, you'll bring into surface what is causing this feeling. You'll be free of it.
Unfortunately I've not been entirely happy with most of the courses I've taken online though so can't really recommend one. I wasn't impressed with Michael Winn's courses [1] in general in case you stumble across his stuff, nor Ken Cohen. I'd suggest exploring books or look for other recommendations (The Tao Bums [2] could be a good place to start). The basics are pretty easy to pick up from books (but overall for meditation I'd say you need a real teacher, either in person or available for video tutoring/chats).
[1] https://healingtaousa.com/ (seems to be giving a 500 at the moment)
Source: 15 years of practice under instruction of a master.
I'm glad you've found something that works for you.
Later you may find yourself too concentrated and forceful, trying too hard to meditate. Then you need to release and simply sit and exist.
Concentration / expansion (spacing out) is the axis of practice.
That's one specific type of meditation. More broadly, meditation can be used to further a wide variety of goals.
For example, Aleister Crowley taught a type of insight meditation that was intended to increase one's personal power over others. His technique was very similar to the one I was taught, which was supposed to be for developing insight into the emptiness of all phenomena.
That is the opposite of what I was taught; I was asked to maintain the maximum possible awareness of what was going on in my mind and around me.
"Spacey"
That is congruent with my experience.
Allow time after a meditation session to have a cup of tea, experience the weather, or whatever. Spaceyness wears off after about ten minutes, and you'll be ready to get back to computer programming, arguing with colleagues, disciplining small children, or whatever it is that the spaceyness was getting in the way of.
It also saves a lot of embarrassment and internal struggle.