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Comment by tombert | Hacker News Reader

I fly fairly frequently to California from NY for work, lately after reading a few articles like this, I wonder if I should put my foot down to my manager and tell them that I'm not going to anymore until flying is less terrible for the atmosphere.

I don't think I'll be fired for that, and even if I were I'd probably be able to find another job without too much trouble at this point, but I feel a bit bad for people don't have this option.

NOTE: I realize I'm hardly a beacon of "how to save the world from climate change", but I do try and do a bit where I can; I take public transit almost exclusively and do not own a car, and I have stopped eating beef and pork. I still order a lot of stuff from China online, which is probably the next habit I should break.

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I did change. I dropped from 35-40 flights in 12 months (really not good, in more ways than one) to 3-4. Still too many. But getting there.

I think people are too quick to dismiss incremental progress; you dropped by 90%, that sounds pretty excellent to me!

"Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" is something that needs to be included in climate conversations a lot more.

You don't have to be a vegan hermit to have an impact. Eating a little less meat, foregoing one flight, and biking to work once a week is better than not doing anything and that's great.

Agree.

I am vegan. Probably 10-20% of my meals end up being vegetarian (usually with a minor ingredient like trace milk in a sauce).

This is simply out of practicality - we're talking stuff like, going to a restaurant with friends and there are no vegan options.

If everyone did that 80%, the ecosystem would (as it _already has!_) change so much that 100% would be trivial.

I used to think that it's pointless to do anything because no-one will follow you.

That has been empirically proven to be complete bollocks over the past few years. Go all in. I will follow, they will follow. It's time.

I try to be concious, I cycle to work or use tram if I can't cycle. I'm vegan and I also use Project Wren to try an offset what I can.

However, my wife is Chinese so of course she wants to see her family once a year. That means at least four flights. However we usually take the opportunity to travel whilst we're in China which adds another two flights each.

To balance this, we usually try to holiday in the UK when we can, which of course means we don't need to fly.

Do it. I'm happy to be your accountability partner if that means anything.

I am planning to limit flying to absolute emergencies (think: my parents die and I need to get to the funeral).

I live in a country which has an almost renewable grid. Long journeys can be made by electric car, public transport (which can be electrified), trains, etc.

The highest carbon output from my lifestyle is heating the home, and the embodied emissions of products that are difficult for me to control (I think embedded CO2 on labels, or carbon pricing, etc would be a great idea).

I already fund offsetting efforts, I posted earlier[1] to crowdfund ideas on how I should spend more.

[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21024358

Why should we do this? Because we can. Because limitless consumption does not make a happy life.

I think that wealthy, or moderately well off, or whatever you want to call it - we people have an obligation to do this. Call it the modern noblesse oblige.

Put your foot down if you can without any consequences.

Otherwise, keep your (presumably) high-paying job and use your money on political donations.

The invisible hand is not going to solve climate change.

Well, it will, but the way it does so is to wait a long time and then deliver the solution all at once as a giant slap to humanity's face.

It would be great if more people did this. In my opinion, air travel is pretty low hanging fruit when it comes reducing personal carbon footprints. I'll spend some time closer to home rather than hopping across the ocean/continent for every vacation.

I think getting an electric car is even lower hanging. No change in lifestyle, a similar total cost of ownership, but a factor of 2.5-3x lower emissions with even the current grid (and effectively zero emissions in the future grid we'll need anyway).

(Plus now you can go on emissions-free road trips.)

Low hanging fruit, assuming you can afford to purchase a new car. Soooo, not so low hanging for a lot of people.

Low hanging fruit assuming you can afford a decent used car. I bought both of my EVs used for $10k apiece (and will save about half of those amounts in gas and maintenance costs...). I see lots of people driving around very large vehicles which, new or used, they probably don't absolutely require and which have both high upfront costs and high operating costs.

I think you'd have more of a point if most people were driving around subcompact beaters.

And remember the context was about someone who can already afford to fly regularly (potentially even overseas), in which case switching to an electric car--if they even require a car--is almost certainly feasible.

Electric cars come with a number of tradeoffs that make them harder to incorporate than skipping a few flights, IMO. If you're single, you don't have a road-trip car anymore (because you only own one car, and a $10k EV is not great for road trips). If you live in an apartment, there's often nowhere to charge the electric car, or you have to buy a parking spot in your building which is expensive AF and limited. A lot of the cheaper EVs feel cheap, which is another sacrifice.

My Volt is $10k (actually you can get them for as low as $6k now) and is great for road trips. It doesn’t feel cheap.

There are already fantastic options for EVs. Almost anyone who buys new could get one. At very least a nice plug in hybrid.

Replacing something that still works and isn’t all that old with a new, more energy-efficient product rarely yields a net reduction in emissions. That new thing need to be produced, and production is often a major component of lifecycle emissions.

I understand the Jevons paradox. However, unlike hybrids, electric cars allow complete elimination of emissions. It's a totally different animal, and it avoids the Jevons paradox while also allowing near-term emissions reduction. It's at least 2.5x better. You're not going to drive 2.5x more.

If you can't stop completely that easily reducing would also be a good start and maybe easier to achieve.

edit: Another parameter you have control over is the amount of luggage you bring. A 30kg luggage allowance is a considerable fraction of most people's weight. Sure, they will fill the plane up with other things, but at least that's not on you.

Another option would be to obtain approval for expensing carbon offsets for unavoidable flights.

That’s a great idea to pitch. It has the side benefit of incentivizing less travel due to increased expense.

Ask if your manager if you can expense carbon offsets for all your business flying.

I’d probably start with raising the corner with the manager.

There could be a cost saving in reducing flights as well, so the issue could be framed a way the presents multiple benefits.

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