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Comment by pc | Hacker News Reader

[Stripe cofounder]

Thanks to everyone here who took a chance on us in the beginning and shared helpful feedback over the years! How to serve startups/developers more effectively at scale is still the main thrust of our product focus. We've fixed and improved a lot of things since we launched here in 2011, but we also still have a lot of work to do. (Both "obvious things we want to fix" and "new functionality we want to build".) I always appreciate hearing from HN users (even if I don't always have time to respond): patrick@stripe.com.

For anyone thinking about what they should work on: I started building developer tools when I was 15 and "tools for creation" is still, IMO, one of the most interesting areas to work in.

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Besides your product, I thank you all at Stripe for setting an example of what real API/SDK documentation is.

Its the basis upon which I form my opinion as to what "good docs" look like. It makes you incredibly spoiled when trying to use some of Stripe's competitors.

I've integrated 8+ payments APIs over my career. IMO, Stripe's "secret sauce" is the quality of the API and the documentation. It's so compelling that I repeatedly choose Stripe over other payments systems that offer network effects like PayPal and Amazon.

I sometimes get asked by customers if we take PayPal. I tell them truthfully "no, it's just too much trouble".

It doesn't seem like "better developer experience" is much of a moat, but based on how bad the competition is - year after year - it sure seems to be. I wonder what other services could be "disrupted" the same way.

I had the same experience my first go at integrating Stripe.

I was able to accept donations in all the ways I wanted:

  - using Netlify (free hosting, includes lambda)
  - custom amounts
  - one-time payment or recurring
  - form on my own site

code is here:

https://github.com/revddit/revddit/blob/master/lambda-src/do...

https://github.com/revddit/revddit/blob/master/src/pages/com...

> I repeatedly choose Stripe over other payments systems that offer network effects like PayPal and Amazon.

For one of the first SaSS products I ever worked on, I (naively) chose Amazon payments. Within six months, Amazon introduced backwards incompatible changes. Six months later, they did it again. For another project I started 5 years ago, I used Stripe. We're still using the same 5 year old API and it works perfectly, even though Stripe has added new features and bells and whistles in their newer versions. Their commitment to backwards compatibility is probably the best I've seen of any fast moving API.

Totally agree. I implemented stuff like Paypal and Adyen. Bit of a horror show. But even Stripe's API has some gotcha's.

I documented how I implemented Stripe for the SaaS I run quite extensively at https://blog.checklyhq.com/our-stripe-billing-implementation...

A quick look at the documentation and I'm impressed and a little jealous. Do you know if this is a proprietary API doc generator similar to Swagger?

As far as I can tell, Stripe invented this type of documentation that you see everywhere else now.

Here’s a framework that helps generate documentation similar to Stripe’s: https://github.com/slatedocs/slate

> I thank you all at Stripe for setting an example of what real API/SDK documentation is.

It's not just their documentation, Stripe's versioning, backwards compatibility support, and fast improvements probably make it the single best API I've ever worked with.

I have new projects that use the latest and greatest Stripe API and features, but also older projects that use their 5 year old APIs, and both work without a hitch.

Meanwhile, PayPal’s CSV transaction export feature is still underdocumented and shows that an account’s transaction history is not immutable: https://money.stackexchange.com/questions/65917/calculating-...

> It's not just their documentation, Stripe's versioning, backwards compatibility support, and fast improvements probably make it the single best API I've ever worked with.

I completely agree - I consider Stripe the gold standard for an API. Best I've ever used.

Now if the fee was under 3% instead of being the very same price as Paypal, that would be a nice welcome bit of competition.

Their newly announced corporate credit card has good benefits (US only): https://stripe.com/en-ca/corporate-card

At least you get some cash back from expenses.

And thank you also for your CTFs. I almost finished CTF 2 (I had the 3/4 of last password) and I learned a lot during this CTF. I am very proud of my T-Shirt.

Wanted to hop in and say thank you for starting Stripe. At my first startup, we had to integrate with an old merchant processor for payments and it was a nightmare. With my current startup, we were able to setup Stripe in the first week of operations and take payments seamlessly without too much hassle. Freeing us up from thinking about how to take payments allows us to focus on our product and building out our company. I'd imagine this is a similar story for thousands of other startups too. Hats off to you, your brother, and all the Stripes.

Stripe has a slick API, but their banned merchant categories (anything telecom or networking related) have caused trouble for many potential clients, esp. as Ubiquiti integrated them as their first payment processor.

The distinction between high risk consumer sales & B2B low risk sales is not drawn by Stripe.

Most of those categories are from financial institutions or card networks. Stripe has been working with them so we can support more businesses, and I know of quite a few networking equipment businesses that run on Stripe today. If you're still seeing any trouble, we'd love to take another look—our support team's at support@stripe.com (and my email's edwin@stripe.com).

Support told me that our business could not continue to use Stripe 2 years ago, we've been with Payment.ninja since (and pay a little under half what we used to pay Stripe).

I took what Stripe Support told us very literally, and we ceased using DigitalOcean and one other service since their only recurring billing options were Stripe.

We don't want to break Stripes ToS or do wrong by our clients, hence our contract-less, B2B only, monthly prepaid business model. Apparently this is too high risk for your company?

Are the telecom and networking sectors subject to significantly more fraud than average? That seems... surprising

I'm 90% certain Stripe has had a few fly by night calling card companies sign up with them, and gotten burned when the calling card company gets a ton of chargebacks for not delivering everything promised.

Thus, a blanket ban on Telecom and anything vaugely related (like ISPs). Certain flagship clients like Twilio get a pass, but smaller players like SignalWire, Telnyx, Teli, etc do not.

Grey market VoIP fraud

Twilio uses Stripe. So "telecom" per se is not banned.

Twilio almost certainly has a different agreement with Stripe than is standard, and Stripe commonly bans Telecom related services: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20012656

The Ubiqiti forums are also littered with ISPs that signed up with Stripe (since Ubiquiti integrates with them) used it for a few months w/o chargebacks or any fraud, but got an email one day saying they were not allowed to use Stripe. Appeals are consistently rejected or go unreplied to.

I emailed Edwin at Stripe 4hrs ago, have not heard back from him.

What business are you in?

That's true that ISPs and WISPs can't really use Stripe (many use Adyen), but pure-VOIP companies offering hosted PBX and such are welcome at Stripe based on feedback I received from several people who work at Stripe.

SignalWire too should be able to use Stripe.

Here is Nitzan of Future Nine (a pure-VoIP company) stating that Stripe does not service VoIP providers: https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r29552956-

When I asked Stripe Support about servicing VoIP companies last year they referred me to the prohibited businesses section and said:

"Historically we have seen that the telecommunications industry is one with too high of a likelihood of customer chargebacks. These need not necessarily be chargebacks in fact; the likelihood of potential chargebacks is also a deciding factor in our deliberations."

This is from 2014. I know several VoIP companies today that are using Stripe successfully.

Edwin (with Stripe) did just re-enable our account, I don't think we will use it, but its nice to not be banned!

You're welcome :)

Patrick, the way Stripe continues to engage with Hacker News and remains true to its roots is an inspiration. Congratulations!

> Thanks to everyone here who took a chance on us in the beginning ...

Stripe is one of the few successful silicon valley companies that provided a service of real value, with enormous efficiency gains, upfront pricing, and don't screw over people as part of their business model. They may have "disrupted" the online payments market in SV parlance, but they didn't actually disrupt anything, they found a nascent but fast-growing market (online payments), and built a product targeted just for it.

Mastercard and Visa are each worth 10X as much as Stripe. Stripe is one of the few unicorn companies that's probably under-hyped.

Kudos to Stripe on an amazing journey! Interesting to revisit the original HN submission of Stripe's launch:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3053883

Incredibly the API links from 2011 still work. Just followed one mentioned in that old discussion:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3054726

> Incredibly the API links from 2011 still work.

Developers rightly praise Stripe's API documentation, but their approach to versioning and backwards compatibility is a gold standard that is not sung enough. What other fast-moving startup that constantly tweaks and changes their APIs also provide backwards compatibility with their earliest versions?

Stripe understands that handling payments is critical, scary, and hard to get right. When a company builds a payment solution that works, there is strong resistance to mess with it. The fact that Stripe is so backwards compatible means that they do not have to.

Never had the chance to use Stripe, however back in the day I played stripe ctf. Best and most fulfilling 8 hours without a single break.

Thank you for the t-shirt and the most enjoyable ctf I had a chance to play!

I respect the scale of your ambition and the suite of services/products you guys offer to realize it.

I love the copy on Stripe's website. Who wrote it?

Godspeed.

> I love the copy on Stripe's website. Who wrote it?

It's not available at Stripe's home page. Would you mind sharing it? Thx

"Copy" in this context is the text: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_(written)

So yes, it is available on the home page - it's the most important thing there!

I think the international expansion is still your weakest point. We've been waiting for Stripe in Romania for years now, and it's an EU country...

I’m going to ask a favor on behalf of a multi billion dollar industry: please figure out how to service cannabis companies.

I build cannabis tech.

Its reall stressful when doing over $1 million in sales in a month and it’s literally all freaking cash and we have to spend hours even with a counting machine counting $20 bills.

Please tell me what your plan is to support legal cannabis.

Thanks

Federal legislation is required.

Not true.

Take for example all thecredit unions in OR, CO, CA

Like north bay credit union in santa rosa.... their requirwments list for opening an account is RIDICULOUS!!

Other companies want either 3% of your deposits or $3,000 a month for a checking account whichever is higher.

Other banks AND companies will cancel your account if you even have the word “canna” in your name.

Ive literally sat there looking at $160,000 in cash with bills needed to be paid and no way to pay the bills...

You know how fun it is to go to seven different post offices with four employees in tow to buy as many money orders as you can so you can pay bills, such as a $25,000 software bill?

Congratulations! Stripe has consistently made my life as a developer and entrepreneur significantly easier. I still remember that feeling of relief some 5-6 years ago thinking, "Yes! I don't have to use PayPal's API!"

Customers still want PayPal though :(

Can't wait for Stripe to integrate PayPal as one of the options. Seems unlikely to happen, but I keep my fingers crossed.

I use paypal because their arbitration (buyer protection) has worked very well for me as a buyer when a vendor tries to screw me over (which does happen from time to time). I do otherwise prefer stripe. I've always hyped it to my friends as a well made and reliable service.

The vendor experience with PayPal is appalling though. They'll randomly take money back off you when a customer hasn't even complained, frequently they'll just freeze you out of your account for months at a time. Better not rely on that seasonal income, half the time it'll be delayed by three months ...

Their API is actually not bad.

The problem is with their libraries, sandbox and testing tools. Also, their support is a complete and utter clusterfuck.

But the API is OK.

Thanks @pc for the last words!

I built opalang.org many years ago - introducing a mix of functional programming, strong static typing for the web, fixing the independence mismatch between client/server/db etc. in 2009, and although we were not able to make it a big success, I'm still spending all my time in this area and am convinced that there is a lot to fix.

Just want to say your Connect product is INCREDIBLE. Our company couldn't function (at least not well and at scale) without it!

Please can you make your update PIN flow a bit different to your view PIN flow ta? If you are developing an app it's nice to be able to confirm that someone has got their OTC correct before they move to setting their PIN - so perhaps give us an ephemeral key for updating PIN we can use to do this as opposed to it being a one step process

Well deserved. Stripe is and has been best in class and best in industry for years.

Thanks for all that you, John and Stripe have done for startups. Question for you, how will you continue to remain focused on helping startups if/when you go public and have shareholders to appease?

Hi Pat. Do you have archives of the original /dev/payments around anywhere? The internet doesn't seem to have any and it would be great to see what Stripe version 0 looked like.

I've always heard Stripe is a great place to work as well. Have been considering applying for one of your remote positions. Congrats and keep it up!

one of the few that actually deserves it. thank you.

Just listened to the How I Built This with you and your brother. Thanks for sharing your story there. Big fan of Stripe!

Congrats on Stripe. Producing and marketing for developers first is indeed a passionating topic.

What was your MVP that you were charging cards in a few weeks of start?

Patrick, how do you approach reconciliation at Stripe?

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