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Comment by vlozko | Hacker News Reader

It’s pretty simple: don’t connect it to the internet. Use something like AppleTV or your own box that you trust to show your streaming services.

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One problem I have with that approach is I'm very confused about how sound works.

Consider three ways to play a movie:

1. From a source device (AppleTV, Blu-ray player, etc) connected to an A/V receiver.

2. From an app on your Smart TV, with the TV passing sound over ARC or optical to the A/V receiver.

3. From a source device, as in #1, but with the device connected to one of the TV's HDMI inputs instead of to the receiver. Sound going from the TV to the A/V receiver via ARC or optical.

Everything I've found seems to agree that #1 can handle anything, with the only limit being formats that are newer than your A/V receiver understands. Mine doesn't know about Dolby Atmos, for example, so wouldn't be able to do that.

For #2, the limit seems to be the bandwidth of ARC or optical. Optical can't do 5.1 or higher PCM, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, or a view others. It can only do stereo PCM, or matrix surround formats.

ARC, if your TV and A/V receiver implement a new enough version of the HDMI spec, has the bandwidth for all those formats.

For #3, some sources say that there are licensing limits, enforced by HDCP, that disallow the TV from passing a high bandwidth audio signal directly from an HDMI input to an HDMI output. Instead, the TV has to do the Dolby or DTS decoding itself, and then re-encode to a lower bandwidth Dolby or DTS format, and send that on.

I think that the very latest version of HDCP will remove that restriction, if both the TV and the the A/V receiver support it (not sure if it also needs to be on the source). But I don't think that is expected to start showing up on consumer equipment until next year.

Unfortunately, my receiver is not 4K, and I really don't want to get a new receiver until that latest HDCP is out, to maximize future proofing. So for now I have to choose between #2 and #3 when I want to watch something in 4K. I think the ARC supported by my TV and/or my receiver probably only has enough bandwidth to support matrix formats for surround sound, but with #2 I think it will be using a matrix encoded bitstream from the source, just passing it through. With #3, it's going to be going through decoding and re-encoding on the TV, to then be decoded again on the receiver. #2 seems better, then.

This is all WAY too freaking complicated.

Can you be sure it is not connected to the Internet? I thought previously someone gave example of a Chinese TV connecting to open hotspots, or perhaps that was just a thought experiment.

As long as every local connection is encrypted/password protected you should be fine.

Unfortunately, outside of rural areas that may not be under your control.

How would encryption help in this case? If the TV connects to open wifi opportunistically it will still be sending data to the internet you don't want it to, encrypted or not.

I think he may have meant that if all available APs are using encryption, then you don't have to worry about your TV automatically connecting.

Yeah I guess that makes sense. But a neighbor that turns on an open wifi hotspot would be all it takes for the TV to connect for a bit.

It's not something that should just be left up to chance, but I also don't know of a good solution other than regulation.

Savvy users can probably open up the back of the TV and unplug the antenna cables, though that will tend to make manufacturers disagreeable should you ever seek warranty service.

WiFi standard password protects encrypted networks. If the router can’t login and you don’t connect Ethernet it’s not connected to the internet.

Not every network requires a password.

Encrypted ones do, at least every commercial version these TV’s would be able to use. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Protected_Setup Is the closest thing to an exception that I know of but still required user action to connect, and it’s been deprecated for a long time.

Some enterprise systems don’t require users to enter passwords, but the software still uses them internally when talking to the network.

PS: Unless you know of some other exception?

Nothing’s stopping TVs from hopping on unencrypted networks.

Or even from silently bruteforcing passwords.

WiFi has limited range, so some people have control over what local networks exist.

At some point we should stop making compromises like this and demand offer of dumb TVs that won't spy on every single thing you do in the privacy of your home.

> Can you be sure it is not connected to the Internet?

Yes, you can be sure. The network capabilities aren't hidden spy equipment. You can disable WiFi and simply not connect Ethernet. The market for your data is relying on the indifference of 99% of TV buyers to data collection. Manufacturers and advertisers -- at least those not too far down the grey market rabbit hole -- don't care enough about the tiny fraction of people that actively thwart this collection activity to employ some sort of legally dubious super sekrit network capability to capture your precious data.

> and simply not connect Ethernet

Ethernet over HDMI is a thing, isn't it?

The other end of HDMI would need to offer a network connection for that to be real. Also its so poorly supported it might as well not be a thing. Noone implements it and it isn't just a "there's Ethernet wires in the HDMI cable", it uses some multi-purpose pins that both ends have to agree to use.

If anyone ever actually builds a TV that supports it* then the list of things one must actively disable will have grown all the way to two. Again, not hidden spy equipment; no reason to wonder whether your TV is secretly communicating with someone.

* https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/325215/appletv-eth...

Network connection can also be shared by devices over HDMI. It was introduced with v1.4 spec in 2009 and runs at 100 Mbps. Pin 13 of HDMI connector has to be broken or covered with tape to ensure no connectivity.

I would imagine that a large percentage (especially older people) won't configure wifi either, so the motivation to use open hotspot (especially that it doesn't take that much effort to implement it) is actually higher.

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