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Comment by daliusd | Hacker News Reader

I was in Iran last year so let's give some perspective why this metric alone is useless:

1. Before university boys and girls learn in separate schools.

2. After university women have almost zero chances for career. It is more probably that they will end up being house wives.

I doubt that this has changed in a year. I have not checked my facts - that's impression from speaking with open minded Iranian families (and we have met various families).

Basically, university is one of the rare chances for women in Iran not to marry their cousin.

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I was born in 1983 in the Netherlands. My mom, and all my friends' moms, were housewives. About half of these moms were university educated or comparably. All their daughters now have proper jobs.

Sounds like Iran is roughly in the same place now, which I assume is a big improvement over some decades ago. Just give it another generation.

Anecdotally, I've tought some CS classes at the local university, to a highly mixed crowd. The Iranian students, every year, were somehow all female, and they were invariably among the top of their class. I'm going to be very surprised if these particular women turn out to become housewives.

I hope you are right as that would transform Iran completely (in positive way).

You can't compare Iran to Netherlands 30+ years ago...

> Just give it another generation.

There is a pretty clear difference between Netherlands and Iran. The former isn't a dictatorship nor a theocracy.

I think it's one of the problems with people from the West reasoning about authoritarian countries. You try to evaluate countries that are like 30-100 years behind by the metrics that are relevant for the Western world _today_ (like gender gap, etc.).

The problem with Iran, in the first place is that it is an authoritarian theocracy with no freedom of speech, assembly and association, freedom of religion, right to fair trial, etc. I believe it's quite unreasonable to talk about gender equality, LGBT right and so forth until these are fixed.

However even authoritarian regimes are different. E.g. Stalin's Soviet Russia is quite different from post-Stalin Soviet Russia while both are authoritarian regimes. I don't want to live in either but if I had to choose from the two that's definitely not under Stalin's sun. Based on what people talk in Iran authoritarian regime is much more relaxed now. The only reason why we don't see revolution in Iran yet is that they still remember the last one. They expect to get normal government somehow without revolution but I doubt that they will succeed with that.

I did't mean Iran is a worst regime ever. I was only objecting to claiming it being 'roughly the same' as Netherlands in 1980s based on one trait, that is women's rights.

Considering Stalin's regime it was quite progressive wrt gender equality for it's time: women had equal rights to vote (even if voting was meaningless), could study at universities and work almost any job they wanted. Still, it was a brutal totalitarian dictatorship, and if I was a woman, I would probably prefer living in some less equal Western country at the time.

Would some ex-soviet country be better example? Again, we have very different stories for ex-soviet countries as well.

Overall I agree with you.

If you were to look at Iran before the revolution, you'd find them as liberal as most and more so than many parts of the West - the Catholic nations - in the same era. So it's only improvement if you're looking at post-revolutionary Iran. Extend timeline a little further back and it's a giant leap backwards.

I think I read somewhere that revolution actually boosted girl literacy and girl attendance to school and high school because most of Iran outside big cities was very conservative and did not trust secular school...

I think there were and there is huge difference between some area in Tehran and different places in the countryside

General literacy is very different to university level education. Anyway, wasn't parent talking of what options are there after the qualification? To get a career with that BSc, or become a housewife...

That there is difference between capital and countryside is not surprising. You'll find that in every nation except city states, throughout history - London compared to the rural parts of Yorkshire or the Scottish Islands. Washington DC compared to rural Ohio or Mississippi. Actually these days, London compared to everywhere else in the UK.

One step at a time.

Substantial cultural or institutional change doesn’t happen in a year or even five years. Anecdotally, the time lines are 20-30 years, if not more. Some countries move faster than others.

I don’t think this metric is useless. No one is saying Iran is the bastion of women’s rights. But - More women achieving higher education is a good thing. The younger generations are certainly far more progressive from the anecdotes I’ve heard from Iranian friends.

That's absolutely the case - but it depends on city. While we were in Iran we have met some very religious people. But we have met people with whom we could talk even about homosexuals' situation in Iran.

Sorry but your second point does not correct. I have relatives in Iran (all my female relatives have finished university in Iran and work). Last time I visted my cousin (this is alreay some years ago) he showed me around the company he works for (IT company) and half of the software engineers there were women.

Almost zero chances? They can't do freelancer or similar?

Oh right, the USA's sanctions.

Most of this is an outright fabrication. Marry their cousin????

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