China is known to arrest people and/or grant extreme sentences in retaliation for things going on in world politics.
Recently China has been executing Canadians in retaliation for an arrest of a Chinese citizen at the request of the United States.[1]
Many people view these arrests at retaliation.
[1] https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/15/china/china-canada-executions...
On the other hand, drug trafficking is punishable by death in China. If anything China has tended to be more lenient to Westerners convicted of drug trafficking compared to its own citizens.
They are welcoming but they expect respect and no involvement in politics.
You're a visitor in a foreign country. Whatever your opinions are I think it is not too difficult to refrain from being involved in politics or sensitive issues.
It's common sense of travelling to a foreign land, really.
Saying "it's China, it's a different culture" doesn't make oppression better.
"Come on, people smoke weed all the time... saying it's Arkansas doesn't make the oppression better"
"Come on, people walk around naked on beaches all the time... saying it's Saudi Arabia doesn't make the oppression better"
Different places, different cultures, different rules. On the plus side, there's no place like home, wherever that is.
Try using this justification against something with which you agree. You should immediately realize that just because X is not too difficult to do, does not necessarily justify the consequences of doing X. An example: it is not too difficult to not voice our concerns regarding brutality, does not mean we should keep quiet about it.
The assumption here that foreign visitors in China feel an urge to become political activists as soon as they disembark their plane or that the political situation in China makes any difference to Western visitors is disingenuous.
I am not trying to justify Chinese policies. I am just saying that claiming that China is a risky place to visit for a Westerner is FUD and does not depict the reality.
I'd absolutely would feel perfectly fine doing this myself, or seeing other foreigners do this.
Good for them, if people want to go to Paris and participate in the yellow vest protests.
Foreigners in China who end up in trouble are those who show up with a large Tibetan flag in public, not those who say that they disagree with the Chinese government (though it helps to be polite and respectful when saying it, which is, again, common sense).
> It's not unusual to talk politics or disagree, and at worst you should end up leaving a bad impression on someone
Which is what would happen in China. You wouldn't end up in prison...
Nobody gets punished for participating in local demonstrations in Europe.
That's ridiculous.
I could absolutely go to the UK and bring a pro brexit, or anti brexit flag, and be totally fine.
The point is that as a Western visitor to China you would only risk being "punished" by doing explicit things that foreign visitors to any country usually don't do.
There is no practical point in discussing what you could or couldn't do if you never did it and never thought of doing it anyway.
So, yes, in Europe you could freely join a demonstration while in China it would not be a good idea. Does it make any practical difference to you as a foreign visitor? No, because that's not something you would do anyway, and if you did, well, you would probably knew the risks.
I also visited France some couple months ago, and in Paris I had no qualms about seeing what was going on with some of the protests there.
This stuff is perfectly OK and normal. There is nothing wrong with that.
> if you never did it and never thought of doing it anyway.
But I did do it.... It was fun to check out what some of the protesters were doing. Why is it so weird and surprising for someone to check out a brexit rally? Lol. I'd imagine that many tourists did that.
> Does it make any practical difference to you as a foreign visitor?
Yes it does! Do you honestly believe that tourists in the UK aren't going around making brexit jokes all the time, and maybe even seeing what some of the protesters are doing? Of course they are doing this. It is a cool touristy thing to do to check out current events, related to local politics!
I guess for most foreigners, it would be very difficult from refraining to visit those sites
They could care less if a foreigner comes here for a few months and then leaves. It won't affect them.
What's the excuse for harvesting organs for political prisoners? Were they "asking for it"? A country that is run by people like this is not safe to visit.
https://chinatribunal.com/china-tribunal-final-judgement-and...
I fully agree: China is not a democratic country, and there is no independent judiciary, and crossing the wrong people while there is a bad idea (is there a country where it's a good idea, though?)
But let's not claim that it is dangerous to visit or even to move to for work. It is very safe.
I think a lot of people would be uncomfortable with that idea. Which is fine as long as they don’t step into China.
However, as China grows stronger everyday, they are starting to expect other countries to toe the line as well. That's the problem I have.
Do you think that he's innocent? If not, then I don't see what this has to do with my post.
Going further, you're implying that China is giving excessive punishments to foreigners due to geopolitical relations.
You are omitting that China isn't treating this specific example more harshly than they would treat a Chinese citizen (who can't buy their way out with money and/or influence). They are being given equal treatment.
The article even says that foreigners are typically treated favorably compared to locals. I do agree that the relaxation of this favorable treatment is related to world politics, but the way your post is framed is disingenuous.
I don't think my original post needs an explicit explanation that a random foreigner being ok in China assumes that you don't commit an obvious crime that would result in, at the very least, prison time or deportation in nearly any other country that won't let you bribe your way out.
If you don't have local family connections advocating for you, as a foriegner you will end up with worse outcomes when interacting with the police or passport system (they've done a few videos on their run-ins with the Chinese legal system).
“If you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
Chinese nationalism has been promoted much more by the CCP over he last 2 years and has turned public sentiment against foriegners pretty severely.
Here, they decided to enforce the law fully. You can argue it's unfair because the attitude of the state has changed and likely because of geopolitics. But from my point of view, the death penalty for drug offences was always a risk, so you're on your own if you decide to do stuff like that anyway.
So the tl;dr is, white westerners no longer get a free pass in foreign country.
The original oppressive law is ignored, because "it's usually not enforced/used."
And then whether it is used for oppression just comes down to whether the powers that be decide you need oppressing.
Indeed, it's one of the criticisms of the war on drugs: that enforcement was tilted towards people that law enforcement, for one reason or another, didn't like (e.g. skin color).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SingaporeEmbarkationCard....
I don't think there was anything in my post that could indicate that...
I personally wouldn't have the death penalty for drug offences. But there are many countries that do, and if that's the law, then you must follow it. Even more so if you are a guest of that country and not a citizen.
"Initially, Schellenberg was seemingly the recipient of such leniency. On November 20, he was sentenced to 15 years in prison for being an accessory to drug smuggling. But he appealed his conviction and at his retrial this week -- more than a month after top Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou was arrested in Vancouver, accused by the United States of helping cover up violations of sanctions on Iran -- he was convicted of a primary role in the smuggling and was sentenced to death."
This can be hard to avoid. For example, let’s say you get caught in a “tea room” scam. That’s where you meet a couple of attractive locals who invite you to a tea room, only when the bill comes it’s astronomically higher than you expected. Your new “friends” and the owners of the establishment are in cahoots. What do you do? If you say you won’t pay and the owners make a scene, it’s entirely possible that a crowd forms, someone shouts “That foreigner said Chinese people are trash!”, and now you’re sitting in a Chinese jail with lumps on your head and criminal charges.
Or maybe a drunk harasses you, and the same thing happens. Or you get into a fender bender with some friend of a Party member. And so on.
If you are a foreigner in China and get involved in a legal dispute, it will probably not go well for you. There is no independent judiciary. Your freedom would be subject to the Party’s political needs.
Some firsthand accounts (ignore the clickbait titles/thumbnails, they’re just playing the YouTube algorithm game):
If you visit china and you're someone they may not like or have a reason to be targeted(even for monetary gain) use extreme caution. People should be aware of this.
For example this guy cannot find otel because he has Turkish citizenship. https://youtu.be/2SvHsU7jwwk also he is being questioned every time when he is being noticed by police.
I have a beard, and pro-HK and pro-Tibetan opinions. I've visited various places in China several times - never had any issues. The customs/immigration officials are friendly, just the same as they are everywhere (except the US!). The few interactions I've had with the police were also friendly, just the same as I'd expect everywhere (except the US!).
I tend to do this regularly, so that was the other reason ;-)