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Comment by gyuserbti | Hacker News Reader

Surprised clipless pedals aren't included in the list of myths.

These sorts of myths exist in many sports; I am fascinated by them.

What's the myth with clipless pedals?

I suspect OP is referring to the idea that you can get significant power returns on the upstroke with clipless pedals. This is definitely questionable. However clipless pedals are still a good idea because your feet don't slide off the pedals. Especially in wet weather they are dramatically safer than flat pedals.

Safer until you forget to unclip at a stop.

After the second time you forget, you'll never forget again.

It's like picking the soldering iron up by the wrong end, I watched both of my kids do that. Once.

What about the flat pedals with metal nubs standing out? I've tried those and sliding on these pedals was pretty much impossible, at least with the shoes I used.

I think I know what you are talking about. Basically it depends on the situation. With clipless pedals, your feet are pretty much locked in place without having to think about it. With flat pedals, they are only really in contact with the pedal when you are pushing down.

If you are riding a bike leisurely at say 12 kph down the street, clipless pedals aren't going to be useful and might even get in your way. If you are riding in traffic at 30-40 kph, then they can literally be a life saver. Over 90 RPM it's hard to keep your feet on the pedals. So if you need a sudden burst of speed when in a low gear, then this will make sure your feet on on the pedals. Also if it's raining and you hit a pot hole, for instance, your feet will be on the pedals. This really helps in keeping control.

If you've never tried them before, I highly recommend it. I never once fell off my bike due to clipless pedals, although some people do. Even though some people fall off when they first start, I've never met anyone who preferred flat pedals after trying clipless for a while.

The one place I would not use clipless pedals is if I was doing a lot of off-road stuff. I know some people use them anyway, but if you need to put your foot down regularly, it's pretty difficult IMHO.

It depends what kind of off-road you mean, but for downhill MTB clipless use has overtook flat pedals. There has been a bit of a resurgence in the use of flat pedals though with Sam Hill's recent wins on flats. I am still a fan of flats for downhill, but I learned riding on flats.

I like clipless because they enforce better form and don't stray into the chain.

I'm not sure how it's questionable, you can definitely put much more torque on the pedals when you can push down with one foot and pull on the other, for sprinting in a big gear or climbing.

The questionable part is, do people apply pressure on anything but the down pedal stroke when they're seated, and riding normally. At least for me, the answer is no.

But they're still nice to have, especially on a single speed or fixed gear. And for fixed gear, flat pedals are unsafe. They give you a lot more control.

https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/14059/are-there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNedIJBZpgM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV0Fz2i2a8s

They're universally recommended as an entry to "serious" biking even though there's no scientific evidence they improve power or speed at all (except maybe marginally in accelerating from a dead stop).

For what it's worth, I have used and continue to use on occasion flats, clips, and clipless, and I prefer some kind of securing mechanism just because it's "set it and forget it" (I prefer clips actually).

However, somewhere in that first set of links (or in a link from one of the links) there's a long essay explaining that people feel less secure on flats because they are used optimally with a different foot position. That is, on clips and clipless you push with the front of your foot, and there's an argument that flats you should push with the middle of your foot. I've been trying this lately and it seems true to me. So some complaints about foot security might have to do with that; people trying the same foot position on both might be doing the wrong thing.

Also, a lot of money has gone into improving clipless pedals, and not so much on flats or clips, so there's some unfair comparisons there too.

I also prefer toe clips alone, but a big part of why is that it forces you to push from around the ball of the foot instead of the arch/middle, and there's practically nothing to think about like with clipless. I was in Amsterdam a few weeks ago and rented bikes with my family - we all had sore arches after riding around 10 miles because without thinking that's what you naturally do. I ride pretty often and since I started using toe clips for every commute and clipless for every weekend training ride I've never had any foot discomfort.

I've noticed the same thing with arch pain on flats. However, when I started pushing from the middle of the foot, rather than the ball of the foot, that arch pain went away. The problem then that is that then I don't think I was able to extend my foot all the way through the down stroke. However, all that means is that I probably should be using shorter crank length with flats (as opposed to clips or clipless).

I've sort of become convinced that with the right bike fit, crank length, foot position, and good pedals, there's probably not really any meaningful difference between the pedal options overall. I don't mean that to denigrate anything, just that they all probably will work well depending on the person, and I don't know that moving to clipless needs to be a rite of passage for anyone necessarily.

Does there need to be scientific evidence to convince you? Maybe you should do a time trial test up a mountain with flats vs clip less. Clip less provides the ability to apply power through the bottom of the stroke, which provides significant benefits when going uphill. Furthermore, you don’t need to worry about keeping proper position on the pedal as you do with flats, which is actually a non trivial mental burden, especially during high torque times like sprints. If you’re just cruising on a flat, flats are fine, but if you plan to be riding seriously on uphills and doing sprints, clipless is the way to go.

Clip less provides the ability to apply power through the bottom of the stroke, which provides significant benefits when going uphill.

Only if you've never learnt how to spin.

What does this mean?

Knowing how to flex your ankles and set the seatpost height and gear ratio correctly lends itself to a style known as spinning that reduces the need to have the foot completely latched into a pedal while you mash and pull.

I used to think like this, but it isn't true. After riding flats, rat traps, and clipless, I can say with confidence that clipless peddles are more efficient when climbing hills. I don't think it is as much about providing power on the bottom as it is about being able to pull up while going through the top. It especially makes it easier to keep a consistent tension while doing long uphill climbs. Rat traps work too, but I found they would catch on things constantly. That said, I use a pedal which is clipless on one side, and flat on the other. Depending on the situation I might use one side or the other (i.e. I might switch to my flats if I am riding in a busy downtown area where I might have to stop unexpectedly). Good technique will of course help you whether you are using clipless or flats.

Compared to cages where you're so tightened in you lose feeling in your feet?

Triathletes would have switched to cages years ago if this was a myth.

I think the 'myth' is that you can use the entire pedal stroke, rather than only pedaling on the down stroke.

Obviously, it's not really a myth, you can definitely do it. But I don't think most people actually do.

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